Episodes 2.1A & 2.1B
Interview with Lukas Avendaño, by Stephanie García on Nov. 28th, 2020
Click here to listen to Episodes 2.1A & 2.1B
Reference list at bottom of page
Stephanie: We share the public statement of Lukas Avendaño, made on December 5, 2020 through Rompeviento TV; after the discovery of the lifeless body of Bruno Alonso Avendaño. Seven days after the interview with Lukas for the second season of our podcast.
Lukas: I am Lukas Avendaño, brother of Bruno Alonso Avendaño, who disappeared on May 10, 2018 in Santo Domingo, Tehuantepec. And within all the bad news that we have had to communicate to you during these two years and six months. We have constantly worked for the appearance of Bruno and the clarification of his disappearance. Today at last, within all these two and a half years of bad news we can finally tell you that we have managed to get Bruno Alonso Avendaño back home. As at one point we said, maybe not in the way we expected but Bruno has returned home. That is the good news, And well, it has been two and a half years of tireless work of a great community that has accompanied us, the local community, the regional community, the state community, the national community, and the international community. All those people who have had the attention to put a like, to share the publication, or those who have taken the time to accompany us in the multiple procedures, we have had to do to the three institutional instances of prosecution and administration of justice as it is the Regional Vice Prosecutor’s Office of the Isthmus of Tehuantepec at the time, the Specialized Unit for Forced Disappearance of the General Prosecutor of the State of Oaxaca, and today before the Attorney General of the Republic; as well as before the different human rights organizations such as the Defense for Human Rights of the Peoples of Oaxaca and the National Human Rights Commission; we want to say that our tireless search for the clarification of Bruno’s disappearance has not been in vain, it has not been useless. Finally, we have achieved like this local, national and international community; get him back home. And that’s the good news. Perhaps the not so good news is that we will continue
managing, we are going to continue challenging, we are going to continue demanding the clarification of this multi-offensive act, this multi-offensive crime against humanity such as forced disappearance. Because we keep saying, people do not disappear by their will, people are disappeared. And due to the conditions in which Bruno’s body was found, it is more than documented that it was not a circumstantial disappearance or an isolated disappearance, but that it has other implications. And in that sense, I want to use the media to demand that just as in that meeting that we held on May 14, 2018 at the Regional Vice Prosecutor’s Office of the Isthmus of Tehuantepec, where in the presence of the Vice Prosecutor, the Prosecutor and Chief, The Public Ministry, the then State Investigation Agent René Alavés Fernandez told us that my brother was partying and that he even dared to say that they had seen him at a bullfight in Santa Rosa de Lima. Today that we have the body of Bruno, our demand is for these officials: Mario Alberto Rodríguez Pérez, José Luis Miguel Cruz, Jorge Martínez Reyes and René Alavés Fernandez; I will be waiting for that explanation. Why at the time did they re-victimize us saying that my brother was at a party, that they had seen him at a party, that they had eyewitnesses who had seen him at a party? And how today, two years and 6 months later we have received him at home without life. That is my demand and our demand will not cease at any time of our existence, and we will be challenging in each of the instances. And I also hope that this message reaches the Defense for Human Rights of the Peoples of Oaxaca, because from the moment I filed the complaint of violation of human rights by officials of the Attorney General of the State of Oaxaca, on June 1, 2018, until today, until today! they still do not pronounce, they still do not sentence or resolve this complaint. Well, this is my demand and we will be in that demand until we have an answer to our demand for this violation of Bruno’s human rights in the first person, of my family and of our aggrieved community. We believe that we are an aggrieved family like thousands of families in this country, and therefore, the Mexican State, until it is incapable of enforcing the Rule of Law that it repeats so many times over and over again; our demand will be in that sense. In that they enforce the rule of law for the citizens, for the citizens of this aggrieved country. Thank you very much for all your support. Thank you very much for all your support. And surely we will continue to communicate with you. Surely we will be informing you about how the process is running its course. Many thanks.
S: Dancer, choreographer, poet, actor, model, performance artist, anthropologist, Muxe performer, multidisciplinary trans, Lukas Avendaño is perhaps the most important artist in the Muxe community. Poetry, dance, and anthropology are the tool he uses to enunciate and express himself. His work has been presented in Argentina, Colombia, Poland, Canada, Germany, Spain, Guatemala, Switzerland, USA, and Ecuador. Since May 10, 2018, his brother Bruno disappeared in a mysterious way in Tehuantepec, Oaxaca. Since then, Lukas Avendaño has focused his art to denounce the disappearance of his brother after having exhausted legal instances, clumsy bureaucratic processes, and the failed protests of a corrupt and dysfunctional Mexican justice system. For Lukas, finding Bruno Avendaño among the current 61,637 disappeared in Mexico is a utopia.
S: Hi Lukas! Welcome to this series of interviews with contemporary artists, “Here & There”. We are very happy that you accepted this invitation. Before starting, I would like to ask you, where are you and how are you doing today?
L: Hi, Stephanie! Thank you for the invitation. Thank you for the opportunity to address the public and your audience. I’m well. I’m here at home, in Tehuantepec, Oaxaca -my mother’s house-, and, well, from here we are connecting through this digital-virtual platform. Well, here I will be.
S: Very good. Thank you very much. Tell us a bit, in your own words, who is Lukas Avendaño?
L: Who is Lukas Avendaño? Uhh, lately I’ve been trying to define who Lukas Avendaño is. Or at least, get closer to who Lukas Avendaño is. And I have come to the conclusion that Lukas Avendaño is an invention; a kind of chimera. As in, with that definition, this monster full of contradictions that does not end in its construction and definition. I believe that this is because I am constantly traveling. I am a life and identity in transit, “trans-isthmic,” I say. I am from the Isthmus region and, at one point, there was talk of the trans-isthmian railway. Right now there is talk of the trans-isthmian multimodal project. And, well, since these structural reforms to the state speak of the Trans-isthmus, because I am, too, then I am also a ‘trans ‘, yes,’ local trans’. Well, yes, I would say right now, like, trying to say who Lukas is, because I am an invention that within this invention, within this chimera, I believe that I try to communicate based on what I do in the scene through my body, through of my word, through my being, and well, that.
S: Tell me something, you say that you are in Tehuantepec, but is that your city, the city where you were born?
L: Yes, ehh, I was born in Santo Domingo Tehuantepec. I was born here, I grew up here until I was 18 when I had to leave to study abroad, and well, since 2011, I have been here again already settled until I die, I think. Heh heh heh.
S: Hey, and how did you get to the arts?
L: How did I get there? Well, uhh, I think that in relation to the conception of the arts, there are parallel realities. There is an institutionalized art, there is a systematized art, there is an art that is found within university curriculum. That is a type of art. There is another art that exists, uhh, that exists in parallel but is not so visible; such as that which is conceptualized as art that they are, uhh, from the experiences and from the ceremonies, from the acts of representation that they have in the native villages. I would say that was my approach. That is to say that one of the images that frequently come to my head is when my grandmother took me to cross myself before I went to sleep, in front of the altar of her saints and as there was no light there was a candle that, that in the way it projected my shadow towards the ceiling or towards the walls of the house; it made me imagine things. So I think that these approaches are like kinds of experiences that people who are dedicated to lighting the stage, right? I did not know that I was approaching that. The others are smells, right? The colors that adorn, uhh, certain family events, certain community events, oral tradition, right? All that, that is, what I am telling you as an oral tradition, when they tell you riddles, when they tell you stories, when they tell you legends, when they tell you anecdotes; one does not imagine that in other contexts it is considered poetry, literature, etc., no? So, all those experiences, I believe, forged a code of emotions in me so that when I happen to find myself in the space of the already institutionalized or systematized arts, I realize that, uh, it touches me, that it moves me, and then I start to make use of that memory, which I call ‘memory archeology’. So then, all that I had experienced as a child in my childhood I could encode it in such a way that now I could put it into a performance with all, or, with the greatest sceno-technical resource, which means that the performance itself provides for you with like lighting, like sound, like the props, as the scenery is.
Well, all that is being remastered, and then that… But I really believe that, it is not that I wanted to dedicate myself to the performing arts, but rather that there were certain events in my life that I wanted to talk about. I think that performance allowed me to speak about precisely those issues that I wanted to speak about and how I wanted to speak. That’s how I got in the performing arts and well, I finished college in 2005 and, hey, it wasn’t until 2015 that my work just started to become known.
S: Where did you go to study and what did you go to study?
L: Uhh, I finished high school here in Tehuantepec and later I went to study at the law school in Oaxaca City. Tehuantepec is six hours from Oaxaca, and I only spent one year at the Law School because I really did not find answers to my questions and I did not find solutions to my problems. So, later I decided to change my degree and change my university. Then I went to Xalapa, Veracruz. Right now I am talking about it as if it were “Ehh, I decided to change my career, and change my university, and change my city, and change my state,” as if it were very easy. But when someone has not left their state… I left the Isthmus, the Isthmus of Tehuantepec Region, only to go to study in Oaxaca and then everything else was, like, very monstrous; it was unknown. And well, apart from everything you have to do, although they are public universities, you have to go through a series of processes, right? Administrative, the admission test, well- the file, the admission test, you have to go to register in a timely manner, and well everything else that entails. So, I later went to study in Xalapa, Veracruz. To the Veracruzan University. Anthropology, that was my goal and, well, I arrived at the Faculty of Anthropology already enrolled, I met the arts unit and it really was a- a 90-degree change in me; in my way of conducting myself in life. And after two years of being in the department of Anthropology, I register, well- I request my file at the department of Dance, I take my exam, they accept me, I enroll, and then I start studying dance.
S: A-ha Okay. Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I think that in your case what I really admire and I really like is how you value your origins and how you reflect that on stage because that gives it a very particular authenticity that, truthfully, I hardly find in other performances. Before we get to that point, I would like to, you already told us a little about that, but I would like you to share with us, what topics do you like to address in your work? Why are they important? And what is your process to put them on stage?
L: This, well, first I think it is not a matter of taste, but a matter of necessity. I think there is more, basically, there is a need, I consider, to talk about these issues that are necessary, urgent, vital for me. And to that extent, that is how I make them a body, and that is how I start the systematization process. Because to say research, it’s like- well like, if those stories are marked on your body, in your memory, in your family history then, it doesn’t take much research, you just have to systematize, right? A little. And then the pieces that I propose are resolved. And the themes that, the ones that intersect for me, uhh, are ethnicity, are gender, sexuality, migration and well, now after May 10, 2018, well now I can also say forced disappearance, yes?
S: Mhm, yes, I understand. Yes. I’d really like to talk about almost, almost everything actually. So, you found those answers in anthropology. It was a career that, meeting with the faculty of arts through the same university, that was key for you? To say ‘I’m from here, my way of expressing is this, and that’s how I’m going to do it because I feel that I can develop these themes in this way.”?
L: Yes, going through the faculty of Anthropology was- I think it gave me the tools to…first of all, to have an interpretation of myself, my culture, my origin. Uhh, I say the premise within classical anthropology is the knowledge of the other, of “otherness.” But when that otherness, when that other is oneself, and, uhh, not willing to renounce that sameness; then they allowed me, let’s say the anthropological tools, allowed me to understand myself, understand myself, assimilate myself. And now we had to take the other step, how to talk about myself, how to talk about that other sameness without the “anthropological science”, in quotation marks, saying that I am contaminating the data; since there is, even within anthropology, there is an area called ehh, ehh, ethno -… ethno -… ethno -… anthropology … Sorry, no. It’s called, it’s called antago -…, ethno…. anthropology… a thing that mixes anthropology and psychoanalysis. I don’t have the word right now. So, in this operation there is one, one term called ‘transference’. It is when- it is thought of as one of the bad aspects of anthropologists that when they arrive at the point where they are going to meet the object of study, they go through this phase of transference where they suddenly begin to feel the problem of the object of study and they start to identify, and they start to get involved beyond what they should, right? Quoted, because precisely within this classic view of this anthropology, you cannot change almost, almost like the course of the history of your objects of study because they even call them that: they are not subjects of study, they are not subjects of history, they are objects of study. So, how to not filter myself in that transference from otherness to selfhood, then that’s when I find myself, I find myself with the arts unit and I find that there are other expressions such as visual arts, theater, dance, music, and I realize that those people who are in that faculty, in that arts unit, in those faculties; Well, they are not afraid of undergoing the transference, well no! They speak from emotion, they speak from the memories, they speak…And then, uhh, I think it was a deliberate way on my part to say, or maybe even unconsciously saying, “Yes, I want to live that because it is what I want to talk about without being accused that I am not doing anthropology, but that I am doing arts, and therefore I am allowed to talk about these issues that I want to speak about, and how I want to speak about them.” So, that’s how I was, I think I decided to enter the department of Arts, especially because at this stage as an anthropology student, ehh, I already did things on the street, right? But I wasn’t an arts student then, so I was like one; it wasn’t legitimate, let’s say, to the arts student community, right? It was illegitimate and it was a bit like this ‘bastard’ thing that happens in families to say. For example, my father did not know his father. And all the time he lived with him, with the stigma that he was a bastard, that he had no father, that he was an orphan and therefore had no opportunity to go to school, right? Because he had no father, he was born without a father. So I think that as an exercise of self-healing, I don’t know, I didn’t want to find myself that bastardy, I didn’t want to be the bastard who does poetry things, dance things, theater things in the street, if I do not go through that formation of being an artist. And so, I believe that in an unconscious way I deliberately sought to be in that artistic community to find not only legality, but also legitimacy. Although now in hindsight, I realize that, at that time I did not have this reflection either. Then, it seemed pertinent to do it and well, since I managed to be in the arts unit, since I went through this training process, well, I also know that I acquired other new tools to make what I wanted to communicate effective in order to, because it was ultimately what interests me, communicate with whoever sees me, with whoever listens to me. With whoever talks to me, with who approaches, with whom I live on a daily basis or more on a daily basis and in that, in that, and in that communication I said well this, almost like picking up these, these phrases of the North American modern dance creator, Martha Graham, when she says that the gesture doesn’t lie, right? So, precisely, if anthropology trained me to, to polish these concepts, then I believe that the training process in dance trained me to polish the gesture. And the, and the specialization of the gesture. And then from there I can possibly give so many contributions with gesture or contributions including exercises that are purely static. Then, and I think it was also good to have gone through that process of training, learning, knowledge, and well, this is how I can now say that what I do, I do with those- without ignorance of those formations or of those disciplines or of those conceptual frameworks or of those epistemological frameworks or of that university curriculum, then because one thinks up to that, right? Suddenly, there are people who, uhh, do certain things. But surely, surely if I had not gone to school, perhaps I would continue doing this but with a great baggage of ignorance. But now I can do it with that same simplicity, if you want to understand it that way, but I do it not because not because I can’t do it in another way; because I want to do it this way. That is to say, I don’t do it that way because I don’t have another option, I do it because I want to do it this way and it is not because I don’t have another option, because I do have other options. But to communicate precisely what I want to communicate, to influence who I want to influence. I want to do it this way and that is why I propose it in the theater or when I have to make an appearance, right?
S: I find it beautiful as you define it. I was reflecting when I listened to you “to do it because I want to do it, because I have the options to do it…and not because I can’t, but because I want to” is this power, right? To create. How this empowers the artist and, and how their media and languages that they choose to express themself is really like an empowering action, I find it very beautiful. If you had to define yourself, are you a multidisciplinary, interdisciplinary, performance artist? Or do you prefer… No…? You know, “I don’t want labels, I just simply do what I do.”
L: Uh, well, mainly, uhh, I think that now I can say that what I do has a finish for the purposeful space of the scene, that is, that is to say it has minimum requirements for staging, right? But a big part that I was telling you, I finished college in 2005 and it was not until 2015, that is, 10 years later that I found myself for the first time in a space with purposeful characteristics for the stage. That is, 10 years then in that interest uhh, because what I did I did in the street, I did it in the park, I did it in public squares, uhh, I did it in the public transport service. And in that sense, I knew I had nothing else more than my body, more than my voice, more than my being. There was no audio, there was no third call for people to be silent and put their phone in vibratory mode, there was no lighting, there was- if anything, there was smoke. It was the smoke from the exhausts of the cars, right? So, in that sense I realized that what I had to propose in the scene had to be proposed in such a way that for everything that intervened, I had the ability to solve it with the resources that I had. And that- or that which could be presented as a, a, a limitation, I could take it up again and so then it could work in my favor. So, uhh, I think that trained me not to, not to tell myself, “You are a multidisciplinary artist.” But rather trained me to say, “The important thing is that people see me, the important thing is that people listen to me, and I will make use of everything possible to achieve that goal to be seen, to be heard; and that’s how the the pieces on the pole build up, because in fact each of the pieces have been born in those circumstances. And I say, when I am already in a purposeful space, well, uhh, yes, with this clarity, well, I resume and the resources that the scenography facilitates for me, well, it turns, and it becomes something else, right? This more, well, well uhh, so that it fulfills its function then, right? In the scene. So, but no no no, I don’t consider myself, at no time did it occur in my head that I was doing ehh, expanded scene or that I was breaking the fourth wall or I was, uhh, being a multidisciplinary, transdisciplinary artist, this- etc., no? Uhh, simply, they were the conditions under which I had to go out to present my work and, uhh, I didn’t want to go home thinking that I didn’t achieve it, for example, right? For example, just to mention an example, when I was in dance school, we had classical ballet on the curriculum, right? And so we were fortunate to have a sole with a stave, a mirror, the teacher who was with the piano all the time, but uhh- and that the teachers constantly insistent on saying, “It’s that the pointed step has to fit like a glove,” and they would spend hours looking at my instep all the time. And I would go back to my mother’s house and I would go and take care of sheep, and plant corn, and then I would say, “What is the use of specializing the instep gesture if I get home to take care of sheep, to plant corn?” I say this, it seemed more important to plant corn than to be stretching the instep, and then I entered a, like a, a vocational crisis and and being here in Tehuantepec I decided, I wonder if what I was training for was really worth something or it was useless. And then I decided to go to the Cerezo, which is the East Rehabilitation Center, here in Tehuantepec; it’s the jail, right? And, uhh, I decided to go and present a piece, so then, well, the only thing- there was a patio, and the only thing I asked the people for, who were inmates, prisoners, was to help me with a bucket, and a red bucket by the way, and they made a hole and then they put a lightbulb inside, and that was my lighting resource.
So, when I appeared, uhh, the signal[to start] was very brief, “I’m going to leave the cell, I place myself under the spotlight, and once I place myself under the spotlight, you guys turn it on.” And then it went like that. Then they turned it on; when I- I appeared, uhh, and I placed myself under the spotlight, it was not dark yet. It was a little clear, and well, the audience started to laugh, no? And so I didn’t understand, I mean I wasn’t doing anything. I was just standing with my eyes closed and people were laughing. And so then after, uhh, then they turned on the spotlight and there was silence. And then at the end, I finished the performance, and there was a row of male inmates and female, because it is a mixed prison this one, and they hugged me, and thanked me and, well, I think that made it final for me- to return. I decided to return to the faculty and decided, uhh, I had decided to dedicate myself, still to this day, to what I dedicate myself to performing arts, right? I do believe that it is worth trying, uh, trying to make the pointed step to fit like a glove.
S: Ha ha ha, I love it.
L: Ha ha, yes and so on.
S: Wow, how wonderful. Lukas, uh, recently we had the fortune to work virtually. And in one of the, uhh, press materials that they sent us, uhh, it says, “Lukas Avendaño is perhaps the most important artist in the Muxe community.” You are Muxe.
L: They say. Ha ha ha.
S: They say, ha ha. Can you tell us a little more for those who don’t know what it means to be Muxe?
L: Uhh, yes. Well, this, we have to first separate, uhh, before the peninsular contact, what that is before 1521, with what we now know as the American continent. Because there were a series of- series of ways of living. And within these ways of living, there was sexuality and there was gender identity, right? This, it is not, it is not that, uhh, right now recently it, ehh, it has been discovered, it is being legislated, this is being invented that some even talk about the dictatorship of gender ideology, right? There were already some practices that were, well they were, uhh, invisible. And when not, they were this, uhh, well they were silent. And these identities had to find ways to survive. I say this, specifically in the first nations in North America, Canada, Alaska, the United States, uhh, there is still talk of Two Spirit, there is still talk, uhh- and when one reviews documents of these colonizers who came to these lands, they speak of Berdache, right? Among some North American and Canadian natives they speak of Manitou, uhh, of Two Spirits, so we are seeing that, it was a practice, a, a, a cultural ecosystem where these identities were not, they were not excluded; as is what happened later with the establishment of the gender ideology, of Christianity, right? Because that was the gender ideology. So- and the same, like what happened with these identities, because it happened to what Mexico is, what Mexico is today. What it is, what is now known as Central America and South America. For example, in Ecuador, when I had to visit Ecuador, in Guayaquil there is an expression for these identities that they call: ‘Los Hombres enchaquirados,’ and this expression comes from the seventeenth century specifically because when these ehh, these peninsular people arrived, well they found that there is an identity, uhh, where there are these people who have male reproductive parts, but who like to adorn themselves as women, they say right? They like to put on necklaces of beads, coral, uhh, and so on. So the men called them enchaquirados and well as these identities, because in Mexico, specifically, in the region of the Isthmus of Tehuantepec, among the Zapotecs of the region of the Isthmus of Tehuantepec. Because there are Zapotecs from central valleys, there are Zapotecs from the southern highlands, there are Zapotecs from the northern highlands, but specifically among the Zapotecs from the region of the Isthmus of Tehuantepec: since there is this identity, they were renamed as Muxe, right? They are people that are born endowed with these male reproductive parts. That is to say, penis and testicles, but that socially or culturally, uhh, they escape the scrupulous gaze of heteronormativity. And then, uhh, and- and they undertake an, uhh, not only an identity but also a social practice, cultural, sensual, sexual, affectively, right? How it disagrees with that of heteronormativity and, uhh, these people have been called Muxe. And the total cultural ecosystem, this is to say, that it involves everyone, that they are named like Muxeidad.
S: What does it mean for you, not only as an artist, but as an individual who is part of a society that has certain, as you say, no, like these norms of how it is in the- in this present time? Not only in your immediate environment that it’s where you live, but when you leave your city, your state, and the country to share your art, what does it mean to be Muxe in this present time?
L: Uhh, what does it mean? Well, in my locality, well, I don’t notice, ha ha, a differentiated treatment. That is to say, I return and when they ask my mother what I do, she says, “He performs dance,” right? I say- and since performing dances is a very recurrent thing, I say, when one goes to school; kindergarten, elementary school, high school, in the festivals that are held- in the school festivals. Because one always participates in dances, so it doesn’t seem crazy that when she synthesizes it by saying that, “He performs dance.” And hence, there are those who come to me, and invite me to put on a Quinceañera waltz, right? As you know, in Mexico it is very popular, right? When women turn 15 years old, they have a lavish party. I mean, in proportion to family possibilities, right? So, but the Quinceañera waltz is something that, that, must be from the local cultural practice, then uhh, well I am that. Without much pretense, and I think that the new generations that have access to the internet suddenly they tell me, “I saw you on YouTube,” or, “I saw you on Facebook,” or, “I saw you…”, and I say yes. And then they tell me, “And that was in where?” and I tell them, oh well it was in this such a place and then they tell me, “Really? You go there?” And now I tell them yes and now- and they ask me questions, right? But I think it is very distant. Specifically I believe that these new generations have understood the power of generating fiction on the internet, right? Because to many of them when, when they send me an invitation to accept them as friends, I see that they put a photo where they have been at a party, and they are bathed, and they are changed and they have their beautiful clothes, right? And, so, they look different from how I see them in the town, so I say well, I believe that in a certain way, like what happens on social media they also think that what happens on the network is fiction. And, uhh, apart from that well, that I think to myself, I think of myself when I was a child who went to high school and English classes were part of the subjects, and for me the United States did not appear in my head. It was a place that did not exist, a strange place aside, I said: I will never go, for what do I want to speak English, why do I want to learn English? So culturally, there was a resistance, since they all passed us with a 6. And now- and so, so that to this day my English is still super basic, but even when I see myself in a direct, real need that, that people only communicate in English I say: oh hell, oh I would have paid a little more attention. But, hey, I think that the kids, likewise those who are in high school or in rural high schools, in the rural high schools here in the nearby towns go through the same, well the same incredulity. Incredulity in relation to what the world is evoking, revolutionizing, well, no? And so I believe…no, no, I don’t think they see me- the only ones that I do believe can measure are some…there is a nearby town that it is called Mixtequilla. And that is the music band with which I generally line, we do collaborations both in the region and in the state, even in Mexico City and they are the ones that more or less measure, uhh, what I do. And what they say is that I am outside the town, well, because when we go out they call me maestro, and then everyone says, “maestro, maestro.” Around here, and here in town I am “El Poncho”, right? Or the most that they call me is Lukas but he is not the teacher; I am not the artist, I am not the performer. And, well, and perhaps in slang, and in the cultural environment, saying Muxe has other implications. But in the local context, saying Muxe is the one who- is the person with whom I have the possibility of venting erotically and then yeah, it has no major importance, right? And that’s that.
(Episode 2.1A Ends and Episode 2.1B Begins)
S: And, for example, not speaking more about your locality, we know that Mexico is a diverse, multicultural country, but we face these…well, yes, the effects of colonization. This vision of trying to homogenize our cultures and our, uhh, language with the idea of building a nation in a certain way, if it had happened- the desire of the colonizers to end the civilizations and cultures that were before could not be possible, if there was a homogenization and I think it has caused an identity crisis. We are a nation with indigenous roots but we face issues of discrimination and denial of our origins. How do you live and how have you experienced…maybe not inside but I don’t know if outside, right? This issue of discrimination or asking yourself at some point to say or feel, not proud of who you are or where you come from?
L: Uhh, it’s no, not as much as, not as much as the word ‘pride’, right? Uhh, but yes, yes I did realize that there were certain disadvantages of…being who I am, looking how I look and, and above all, having this, this desire, and this longing, and this foolishness to continue, uhh, to continue bringing my archaeology of memory to the present time. Well, and I say this because uhh, when I was studying in Xalapa Veracruz, and every time I went to Xalapa- from Tehuantepec to Xalapa, uhh, it was inevitable that I would go up migration two or three times on the bus. And it was inevitable that each time they asked me to identify myself, uhh, they interrogated me, and although I tried to answer efficiently, there was always another question to ask me, what I was saying was always questioned, right? So, uhhh, since it happened to me in the United States when I entered by air, right? So much so that later I decided to only enter by land, because there were less, less, less, uhh, less obstacles to enter the United States. So, uhh, I realized that, yes, that there were certain conditions in which I was not…that, that- and that I realized, then, that there was a large sector of the population that passed through these same, through these same filters in Mexico itself. And well, but unfortunately as many of these sectors did not have, they have not had, because there is still a sector that has not yet had access to education, uhh… and that all this time they have been told that they have the face of a molcajete, the face of an idol, they have the nopal on their forehead, this one, the head of a wild boar, etc., no? Maybe, so maybe they weren’t lucky enough to have a dad like mine, if not maybe even them, they specifically encouraged them that they had to study to be someone in life. That they had to leave town to be someone in life. That they did not have to return to town, because if they returned to town, they would return as failure men, failure woman, etc. So when I say ehh, maybe not everyone was lucky enough to have a father like mine. I say this because my father who was fond of boxing, and I believe that he also lived by this matter of the bastardy; of being an illegitimate child, of being an orphan. He experienced a lot of discrimination and many limitations, not to mention, because he was an Indian, it was- it seemed that being a bastard is heavier than being an Indian, right? So, uhh, I think that somehow he, he saw that he did not want us to go through these situations of discrimination and within his love of boxing, when he put the gloves on- we are five males. And, well, and the neighbors and the cousins who came to box in the courtyard of the house and when I put the boxing gloves on, I would start crying because I didn’t like to fight, because I didn’t want to be hit, because I didn’t want to hit anyone and then he told me, “They are not going to stop hitting you because you stop fighting,” or, “Not because you stop fighting will- will it hurt less, you have to fight.” So I think that in one way or another, he was training me to fight. So when I come across this series of discriminatory situations, I try to turn them around. I try, like, uhh, not to confront when the conditions, uhh, are not favorable because I know that I am going to lose. And so- but when I know the conditions are favorable for me, or I can generate favorable conditions for myself, then yes. I take out my nails and I go and, well, I say, “Yes, I am going to fight.” And, well, all those processes well, well, I went through. And now that I return to the town and the kids, uhh, above all, the young people, they tell me, “Hey, if you travel so much, why don’t you bring some cool tennis shoes, some cool pants, a cool watch, a cool shirt, a cool cap,” right? Because also- then I realize that I am a person who, and I think it is part of the disbelief they have towards me, that I really go to those mythical places, right?…Because I do not return with the cool suitcase, the cool portfolio, or I do not have the car that people expect. If you are, you are truly successful professionally that really suits you well, at least you must have a little nice car, right? And since I do not have one, then it is always questioned; but I also realize that I have a responsibility for- with them. Because I realize that in the end, in these, in these cases, because of what I do, what I dedicate myself to, where I go, whether you want to return to town with that one, with that cool phone, with that iPhone or not- they say, “The latest model of the iPhone is out and you still have a peanut. You still don’t have WhatsApp,” so I realize that I generate opinion, I generate desires, and I generate aspirations. And that no, that’s not necessarily linked to a self-recognition and a worthy acceptance of one’s life, and one’s existence, and one’s family history. And so I prefer to renounce those things that they call cool because, apart from that, I also know that if I do it, in one way or another it becomes an aspirational desire of others. And surely they, uhh, and now unfortunately there are other ways to access these cool objects, no? And that- and that drug trafficking and violence is right around my house, right? And I would not want that by bringing some cool tennis shoes. It becomes an aspirational object of my neighbors, and then, since they cannot travel to these countries or do not have the possibilities at this time to travel to these countries, or to earn what Lukas is supposedly earning, then they have other possibilities that are offered by drug trafficking, offered by violence, offered by crime that then equals the cool tennis shoes that Lukas Avendaño brings, no? And so, I think it is a form of my responsibility; to conduct myself with that sobriety, with that simplicity, with that, uhh, they say, uhh, some say humility, those who are from outside of here, but those from here call it poverty, right? Ha ha ha. With that poverty there, in flip-flops, in some old shorts, and a T-shirt and all disheveled, he is walking around town, right? So, uhh, well, I prefer, I prefer to pay the cost of not, of, of not having the recognition in my locality of the famous artist, than to pay the cost of feeling responsible that I am leading to a dead end, or I am taking the girls to the boys who approach me to the edge of a precipice, or who want to imitate the famous Lukas Avendaño, no. I prefer that, that, that they are ashamed of me at this moment, than that they say this- yes because at the end of the day one becomes, like, well, when there is a successful musician in town, everyone recognizes them. When there is a successful baseball player, everyone recognizes them. When there is a whore in town, uhh, the community feels embarrassed that they have to say that that whore is from the town, or that drunk, or that junkie, right? So I don’t- I prefer, uhh, I prefer that, that they don’t feel proud of me, because they’re going to say, “That dude is just showing his ass out there and he’s from town,” right? I prefer that they see me, like this, with this naturalness with which I have grown up with, and well maybe, to bet, perhaps- and perhaps because of that also what I am now trying to generate is a cultural space for the girls and boys. Because I also realize that young people- not adults because we no longer have a remedy, right? We already grew as we grew up, crooked and whatever, but we already grew up. But the girls and boys, it seems to me that it is an opportunity for them to have access that I would have wanted as a child, right? Beautiful books, with many colors with smells, and well, that’s what, uhh, I am, last year I started it is a dedicated reading room for children’s audiences, this, this year has been closed for eight months that the pandemic has lasted and, uhh, and then, uhh, I also generated a strategy where they were given tickets every time they came to the reading room, and every two months there was the gift table where they could exchange it for gifts. And the gifts were nothing more than objects that they gave me. When I go to festivals, the little bag, the water bottle, the keychain, the pen, the stickers, and little things like that, right? They were giving them to me and then I really was not going to use them, uhh, but I know that for the girls, for the boys, having a little bottle for their water, having a keychain that shines or has little lights is nice. And so that becomes the gift table and, uhh, and well I hope that on January 1st, uhh, to reopen the space with- so that the girls and boys come for their gifts because I keep accumulating gifts, ha ha ha and well I need to deliver them already.
S: How wonderful. I didn’t know about these projects, that impact seems extremely important to me. I think that the younger generations will, in many ways, they are going to face many challenges and I think that having references is important. Uhh, now I would like to speak about, uhh, that you tell us a little about- I have seen your work in three or four different ways. One was a show that I saw at the Sala Covarrubias, at the UNAM University Cultural Center. I have also seen a couple of videos of the performances you do in Oaxaca, which is also in the City of Oaxaca, which is beautiful, and seeing you walking through the Ex Convent and doing as all these performances has an expressive power and a very strong meaning. And I was able to see the ‘Utopía de la Mariposa’ (Utopia of the Butterfly), which is this documentary about the disappearance of your brother. In a sense, I can’t help but think that you’re also an activist, right? Through your art, through how you express yourself, there is an action. It is nothing more like reflecting and talking about it. If there is no action and- it is through action that the world is ideally transformed. But hey, the problems go far beyond the action of a human being. I saw Miguel Crespo’s documentary, and that’s how I learned about your brother’s disappearance.
L: Uhh, well, if I believe that to me, this bad experience that we have, we have been going through since, uhh, in the first place since May 10, 2018. Because, well, after that date, well, I realized that we have been through several decades where many families have, have been going through these bad experiences, right? Of the disappearances. Uhh, and so it, it, made me, made me think a little more clearer that not only uhh the, not only the, the, the object of discrimination is the Indian peoples but, or the peasants, but I realized that there were- that there are others, many other identities that are also going through this, through this process, right? Because then I realize that it doesn’t matter what you do; if you are famous or not, if you are poor or not, if you are men, if you are a woman, if you are a trans man, if you are a trans woman, if you are black, if you are white, if you are yellow. But I realize that there is a superstructure that generates inhumane conditions, and that then, uhh, and that, that- I will not be able to stop that inhumanity machine, I will not be able to stop it myself with only with my body and my will if not that, uhh, or at least change it’s direction, but that it has to be a sum of wills, right? And to that extent, uhh, I think that, uhh, was how I decided to get on the ticket, to the- to the machine because I could also be crazy and ignorant, right? Like many other families that go through this bad experience of having a disappearance and saying, well, uhh, we pretend that, we pretend that he is far away and that one day he will come, like he went on a trip, as if in some case he was working outside. He’s working outside, and some boy is going to show up with his suitcase right? Uhh, and he’s going to knock on the door, I could have created that idea too, right? Uhh, and because, already in this journey I realize that there are many families who, well, well, who have decided to make that decision, right? And say, “Well, our life- we have to go on with our life, life goes on, I have other sons, I have other daughters,” and even more so when there are threats behind their disappearance, no? And in these threats, uhh they lead to tell them, “Calm down because you have other daughters, calm down because you have other sons, calm down because we know where you live, calm down because we can go for you, we can take you out, we can kill you,” and so on, right? So uhh, it leads me to understand that, but I also realize that since I, I, I have said, this, this confinement, and it is merely a conjunctural issue because, uhh, historically, we are socially a society, uhh, confined, confined a, aa to oblivion, confined to the disappearance of work, to cultural disappearance, to the disappearance of, uhh, to enjoy means, uhh, or spaces, uhh, nice spaces, beautiful spaces, right? Uhh, I think, for example, of many young boys, young girls from my town who go to work in the fields, in the fields of the northern states of the country, right? To raise the harvest, uhh, for example, my brother Bruno was also one of those, one of those young people who at some point went to Sonora, then he tried to cross to the United States, immigration threw him out, he returned home. So, in the case that we are missing people, then no, the tip of the iceberg is the physical disappearance, the real disappearance, but there are a series of disappearances, then. And in that sense I realize that I, too, I am also a missing person since migration gets on the bus and tells me, “Identify yourself.” Because they think I am, because of my phenotype, they believe that I am Guatemalan, they believe that I am Honduran, they believe that I am Salvadorian and that, therefore, I do not have the right to move freely through the territory when, constitutionally, it is assumed that this, which is a right of Mexicans, and, well, I am Mexican- I am a non-Mexican in my own country. Like when my father went to the United States and one day he came back, and one day he returned, and said that he had passed by a place where the flag of Mexico was and he touched it. And he said that it felt so nice to touch the flag of Mexico outside the country, but he said, “Why, why does it, uhh, why does it have to feel so nice to touch the flag of one’s country outside of their country, when in their own country, uhh, no, they cannot have that- they cannot live that experience of touching it, beautifully, or of being sheltered by their own country, right? I mean to this day, I still have two brothers in the United States, right? Who are dedicated to the, to the grape harvest in the fields, in Greenfield and in Salinas, California. And then, well, when I say, well, really, uh, like, as the Zapatistas said in 1994, they say, “They can’t kill us because dead we have always been, and they will not be able to kill us twice.” And then, well, I said, well yes, I am going to try to, to- put in whatever I possibly can because I have always been missing, because I have always been dead. Because if I would not have been desperate to study the university, surely I would be living with my brothers in Greenfield, in Salinas, in any other place in the United States. Because also when I left the University and returned to town after eight months of looking for work, I realized that there was no work for me and, and my family did all the paperwork for me to go to the United States when I say paperwork, it is talking to the cousins, talking to the brothers, who is going to pay the coyote, who is the coyote, how will they get me through, when will they get me through, where will they get me through, no? And it was not until I went to say goodbye to my sister in Mexico City, and met a stranger, because there was a stranger who suddenly approached me and began to talk to me and asked me if I knew Teotihuacán. I said no and he invited me to go to Teotihuacán and I accepted and went. And after being in Teotihuacán, I decided to return home and not continue on my route to the United States, no? Then I realize that I really have nothing to lose, right? Uhh, yes, yes, if I disappear, if I die- anyway we are going to die, no? Ha ha, more with this one, with this uncertainty that this pandemic generates, right? Everyone is going to die, so yeah, let’s die like cicadas, like cicadas, right? Singing, uhh, stridulating our abdomens with joy, uhh, receiving the sunlight and not being in the dark and not in the opacity of our own existence, right? And, well, I think that, uhh, I think that this, this whole succession of events because I believe that it is but, but those first blows that, that I began to receive since I was a child when my dad put on the, the, the boxing gloves, right? I think that, in an unconscious way, he- he knew how violent the world was outside, outside of your family nucleus and, uhh I think he did not want us to go through these circumstances. I say different ones because- but he didn’t want us to go through these circumstances and uhh, and that is why he trained us like this and he trained us like this so much so. So, so now I tell you I have two brothers in the United States, I have a sister in Mexico, I have another brother in Oaxaca. Me and Bruno who, I’m sure that despite all the conditions, I’m sure that he fought before becoming, becoming, becoming, missing, right? Uhh, because we were trained for that, to fight, to defend ourselves, to defend what we consider to be- what must be worthy. It must be the dignity of the person, of humanity. Uhh, my father always told us, “When you all go to a place, do things the best that you can.” He did not tell us, “Be the best,” he told us, “Do things the best you can and even if you are not the best, you will know that you did the best you can for what you had to do,” right? Uhh, and it seems to me that it was an, an idea that unfortunately I, I ended up, I ended up believing, right? So, so now every time I go on stage, I try to do the best I can, I don’t try to be the best, I try to be the best I can. When, uhh, when I went to college, I tried to do my work as best that I could and his recurring word was “Don’t be mediocre, you guys. Don’t be mediocre.” Uhh, “It’s because when you guys are no longer in that place, people remember you for what you gave them; everything you could do when you were in that place,” he told us, right? And, well this one- and there was something else he told us, right? “Your, your best letter of recommendation is going to be your work, don’t expect godparents, don’t expect to have influential friends because we are not from influential families,” right? “I do not have influential acquaintances, I do not have people I can ask a favor from, that is, I do not have- I can not help you in that sense, so what I will recommend is your work and try to do it the best possible.” And I believe that in that, in that logic, to this day, our existence truthfully, justly for non-recurrence, is that disposition that we have. We believe that perhaps we will not recover Bruno…perhaps we will not recover him as we wish, as we wish, but we want his disappearance to be able to set a precedent so that other families from Isthmus, Oaxaca, or Mexico do not have to go through these same bad practices of the officials, of the public servants who are in charge of an institution that’s in charge of procuring and imparting justice, right? Well, we are on that, that- we are on that trip and we know that it is just beginning. It will be 2 years since Bruno’s disappearance, but we believe that it is just beginning and we are preparing for this, for this great endurance race or we believe that we are preparing ourselves then, right? And well uhh, because we are going to be in it, as long as we live, as long as we are alive, we are going to believe that hope that things will change exists; that things may be different for “nobodies” as Eduardo Galeano says, no?
S: Mmhm, mhm, totally. Yes, yes Lukas, I don’t know- I hear you. And mhm, yes, in your answer to this you just made an X-ray of the reality of Mexico, right? The silence, the fear. There are many families, many individuals who live this reality. And there is fear because you do not know what can happen…already, there is someone from your family, from your circle that disappeared, but you do not only have that fear and pain, but also fear and frustration because just, we do not feel safe or sheltered by our own country, or by the institutions or organizations that should really look after the interests of the population. And I find what you guys do, what you do, very admirable in not silencing yourself, because silence in the end makes us accomplices. And I agree that we have to be more of the kind of people who know about these shared experiences and find strength from them, because human dignity should be above institutions and above any other interest. But we know we have this reality and we live with it; I think our nation is in a lot of pain. I don’t, I don’t, I don’t feel that anything I can say is…We are with you, we are with you and we are with our own country and with all those people who, indeed, do live in pain and oblivion; and although they are alive and they are there they do not exist as you mentioned with Galeano. Octavio Paz also mentioned something about it. Uhh, and I think that is also why you- your art, and your way of expressing yourself is, it is so powerful because it is authentic, because it is, uhh, original. And not original in the sense, it is novel or you are inventing the black thread, you know? But, because, because they are themes that connect with who you are, and as a spectator, I can attest to it, right? And I think many people can attest to it. I would like to, to close this part- what could you share, thinking about the new generations or young artists who perhaps encounter art and would like to manifest themselves through art, what advice or what learning would you like to share with them that you were not aware of? Maybe intuitively yes, but you weren’t aware of it when you first encountered the arts?
L: Well that, uhh, I think that, that uhh, to these new generations who, who have aspirations, desires, dreams, or clarity with what they want, what they want to become. Well that surely, uhh, perhaps not all but some are going to meet people on their path who are going to say no to them. People who are going to tell them that they are dreamers, people who are going to tell them that they are delusional, that ‘what’s going through your head?’, that, that they are not good at that, that they are not- that they have no talent, that they do not have any grace, that they do not have creativity, that they do not have imagination. But, uhh, for every time someone tells them those things, that they don’t trust that person, that they don’t trust that person. And that if they- those people, who to these girls, to these boys tell them that and they come to believe it: to believe that, in fact, they have no talent, they do not have creativity, they do not have imagination…for that other someone who told them that, it’s works for them for the young people to believe that. And so I think here, uhh, the suggestion is that every time you tell them that, that you guys are not good at what you want to dedicate yourselves to, we just have to persevere. We have to, uhh, say to a friend, “There is no one- there is not a crisis, there is not a crisis that can be overcome before 24 hours of work.” That is- and I think that is the most important thing. To keep doing, to keep creating. Because at the end of the day, when, uhh, I see it in hindsight, like with my fellow university students. When one is training, they are not even thinking that they are going to be the recognized artist; one simply wants to communicate, one simply wants uhh, uhh, to empty yourself out into what you are doing. Be it a piece of ceramic, be it a photograph, be it a, a canvas, be it a dance, be it a text this from- a literary text. The only thing that one wants is to empty oneself out, one wants to share oneself. And, in that sense, there is no greater claim, there is no greater aspiration. In addition, the other stuff will come later; more likely later than sooner, it will come in addition. And, and in that sense that would be my comment, my invitation. To say, uhh, when someone tells you that you guys do not do well at what you want to do, don’t trust that person and continue, simply continue doing what, what you want to do. And, perhaps, reconsider only the materials you are using, reconsider uhh, that. And sooner or later, this, uhh, does not stop, because at the end of the day, one does not do it, in that training process, one, one does not do it for others, one does it for oneself. And now, like in my case, when I, for example, made these pieces “Requiem por un Alkaraban”, “No soy persona, soy mariposa”; I did it out of a need of mine, that is, I wanted to talk about this and I said, yes yes, if I don’t, no one else is going to say it for me. And now like, when I was a child I played a little game where we said, “1,2,3, salvation for me and for all my friends.” That is, nobody, nobody- nobody is going to do it if I don’t do it now. And, well uhh, I believe that in that sense of, now- well there are already those who take time to go see me, to listen to me, but before I had to go out to say the same thing that I say in the scene, to present the same thing that I do in the scene I did it in the street. Uhh, and there were people from there who said that I was crazy, that I was an idiot, that, that I was a person who used drugs, etc., right? But then no, I mean, well no. And I believe that, and that is the- I believe that the greatest confidence that one can have is the confidence in oneself. Uhh, of knowing, of believing, of feeling that what you are doing is the right thing to do, even if it is not a thing to do that is agreed upon, but that is the right thing to do, right?
S: A-ha, hey Lukas, a funny question, uh, do you, do you make your own- your own outfits for the scene?
L: Uhh, I don’t make them but I usually- when they are fabric, I look for fabrics, I buy them, and I take them to the people who make me clothes, make me accessories. Another way, too, is, uhh, I find them and I say “Aaah, this applies here.” Yes, but generally yes, I decide on each element I use. For example, in “No soy persona, soy mariposa”, the first time I did it it was just a stencil, because they are on tissue paper, they are butterflies in stencil on tissue paper. And it was only enough to pay the artist who made me one butterfly, now I use ten, no? Or fifteen, depending on the setting. But at that time, it was that and I thought of it as a butterfly on tissue paper, even when there were those who told me, “You can do it in plastic, you can do it in cloth, it will last longer, it is cheaper.” I said yes, but no, because even though the viewer does not know that it is tissue paper, even though the viewer does not know that they are stencil butterflies, uhh, to me it is important that they are made of tissue paper, for me it is important that, that it be like that. And, so, yes, I decide each element. I choose them and, well, when, uhh, when I cannot produce them directly, I say the dimensions or the design that I want them to have.
S: A-ha, yes, yes, I thought about that because, yes, everything you use on stage, the truth is that, every part of the clothing is, it is such an overwhelming beauty. And also I saw this show where I believe that you did like 3 or 4 changes. And each one was more beautiful than the last and it was like, wow! So pretty much you design them and you simply guide the realization.
L: Yes, uhh, when I was doing this production- well, they are costumes, they are original costumes of the Tehuanas of the Isthmus, right? At different times, uhh, my mother, and her idea of me performing dances, would tell me, “José, isn’t that a lot of money for a dance wardrobe?” And then I said to her, because precisely what the dance school teaches us is that it has more or less to resemble it a bit, right? The one from the wardrobe that looks a little like you freed it. So I told my mother, I premiered that piece in Juchitán and then I presented it in Tehuantepec. So, I mean, no, what- when I did “Requiem por un Alkaraban”, I did not want the Tehuanas, the Zapotecs, the Juchitecas to feel, this, well, minimized, no? That is, because at the end of the day, I am going to be someone who is talking about, about, about us, about them. Then, uhh, I said to my mom, my first question was, “Mom, would you like to see yourself in this suit?” And she told me, “Any Tehuanan would like to see themselves in that suit.” And when she answered that, then I said, yes, that, that’s my, my intention. That they feel cared for, that they feel protected, no- surely they don’t need to feel cared for or protected, right? But I wanted, or at least, did not want them to feel, neglected by myself, due to my responsibility, to my, to my uhh, due to my greed. No, no, no, I said no, it doesn’t matter, even me- and so that was the premise. And when I appeared in the scene in Juchitán, in Tehuantepec, uhh, originally I used my mother’s earrings that are $2.50 gold coins. And on one occasion she- because, because this was my idea, right? Performance is not simulation; that is, if it is blood it is blood and if it is gold it is gold, it is not gold-colored, right? Until in a function, uhh, dancing, I broke my earring, the rod of the earring, and the coins fell among the audience. I was like in the scene of the drunk, so I tell the audience to look for my coin, within my apparent drunkenness but above all my conscious sobriety that I was losing my mother’s coins. And then there is a person from the audience who tells me, “Leave that iron, my daughter, it is iron,” they say. And then I, inside the character and reality, or between fiction and reality, I said, “No, mom.” I said, “Because the legitimate Tehuanans use only gold ones. Look for my coin.” And then, and the coin appeared, ha ha. It was two coins and then, uhh, I said well, at least I am not going to use the coins anymore. And then I looked for another jewelry set that is also golden, and that is also super cute, and that, well, it worthily replaces that pair of $2.50 gold coins.
S: I think it’s a good strategy. Very good, Lukas. I am going to ask you some last questions, they are very short questions, they are very simple questions. The idea is, you answer the first thing that comes to mind.
L: Yes.
S: Are you ready? Favorite food?
L: I mean, as long as there’s something on the table it’s fabulous.
S: Your favorite reading?
L: Favorite reading, right now I’m reading Mishima, Yukio, it’s a Japanese text.
S: What makes you curious?
L: The unknown. It makes me very, very curious.
S: What would be the worst advice someone has ever given you?
L: That with my attitude I’m not going to get anywhere. When in reality, now in retrospect, I know that I was condemning myself to reach utopia because utopia is that ‘No Place’, right? So I say, yes, it was a discussion with an official at the university and he told me, “With that attitude, you are not going to get anywhere.”
S: Hmm, and what would be the best advice you’ve ever been given?
L: The best advice they have given me, I think it is that idea, that idea of work that my father told us, “When you do what you do, do it the best you can.”
S: Mmm, mmm. What do you consider to be a stigma that, as a society, we have to leave behind?
L: I think the stigma that, that, that not even- I think that wanting to erase our past of original peoples. Uhh, that seems to me that, uhh- because we are going to be here anyway, that’s why…so I think that is the stigma that people should say already, “Well, if we couldn’t, if we couldn’t, if we couldn’t make them stop disappearing, if we couldn’t let them cease to exist, if not we were able to establish this monarchical system as it was our wish once was, well okay, let’s make up, right? I say, because at the end of the day- for example, what I see a lot in this desire of the 15 years celebration is nothing but that, that one, that exacerbated desire that is in the unconsciousness of believing that we are royalty. And now, it is not enough to be a fifteen-year-old, but that they crown you as the queen of the party. No, already the monarchies, already dead, it was.
S: I love it, yes, any favorite movies?
L: I don’t have favorite movies, but I really like Akira Kurosawa movies.
S: Aah, is there any artistic work by another colleague that has marked you?
L: Well, uhh, on one occasion when Marcel Marceau came to Xalapa, Veracruz and they gave me a ticket to attend, I spent the whole time crying. Uhh, that and when I was a dance student, I saw for the first time on an International Dance Day at the National Center of the Arts of La Cebra Danza Gay company. So when I saw them dance, I was a student but in my first year, I said, uhh, how I would like, uhh, one day to be part of the cast of the La Cebra Danza Gay. Uhh, well, in the long run no, I have not been able to be apart of La Cebra Danza Gay, but I think I can be the mare- I mean to say the mule of the apocalypse because the mares already, already, already was- they came into existence with Casas and Pedro Lemebel in Chile, right? The Mares of the Apocalypse. And- but for me, I say the mule of the apocalypse because mules are never going to get pregnant and they are never going to give birth.
S: Aah, ha ha any favorite music album, composer or song?
L: Uhh, despite the fact that our existence and our denial have been marked by Catholicism, I really like the Bach Gospels, yes I really like it a lot, among other pieces I mean, but I really like the Bach Gospels. The Gospel according to Saint John, more than anything.
S: Ha ha, uhh, could you tell us about what you consider your artistic influences?
L: Uhh, more than my influences, I think that they, they, they continue to motivate me, they continue to motivate me. One of them I think is this, this Mishima Yukio. Another, I think is, uhh, Pedro Lemebel I also like a lot. Uhh, uhh, Eduardo Galeano, although he does not consider him an artist but the readings of, of-the readings that I have done of some texts of him, help me to understand myself, help me to understand myself and, above all, help me to be brave and take courage. And also Tamasaburo, who is an Onnagata from Japan, that I’ve only seen on YouTube, uhh, I also find them inspiring. Uhh, and- uhh, I think what- the ones that have been the most inspiring in my, in my, in my decision to talk about these issues of ethnicity, sexuality, uhh, is the, uhh, Zapatista Army of National Liberation when they summoned us to the other loves. And when they said ‘other loves’, the homosexuals, bisexuals, transsexuals and everyone’s style and their way, is when, for the first time I felt, uhh, recognized. Yes, as an Indian person, but also as that sector that never appeared in the social struggles with the guerrilla processes. Uhh, and that, that is also a great discussion that Pedro Lemebel throws in there, that the text of the manifesto is born “I speak for my differences.” And, so yeah, I believe that the EZLN taught me to understand that my family history, my ethnic history, what I was in the present, in today, I had- has a value, has a value that must be lived with dignity.
S: Mmm, hmm. Do you have any rituals or routines that you do daily?
L: Uhh, what do I do daily? This, mmmm, a ritual, well, a routine is to breathe; if not I’ll die. Ha ha, but a ritual no, I don’t think I have a ritual, which with…it’s that it bores me like, it bores me, like, the monotony. And I always have to do, I always have to be doing different things. For example today, before connecting, I started- we have coffee jars where I put my mother’s spices or seeds, I began to dust them and put them back again because it seemed boring to see them right there still and I had to move them.
S: Ha ha ha, okay. And to close, if, Lukas, you could not continue expressing yourself through art or they told you, “Okay, you can’t do anything related to art anymore,” what would happen to you?
L: If I couldn’t..I would, I think I would do the same thing without telling you that it is art. I would say, “I’m going to make a pamphlet now,” or, “I’m going to commit suicide,” then, but I wouldn’t tell you guys what it is, that it’s an artistic piece, well no.
S: Ha ha ha, very good. I think the answer is very, very, very creative. Thank you very much, Lukas! This is the last section, we really appreciate your words, that you have connected for a little while to share with us about yourself, your life, who you are, you know? Of these deepest parts, your heart; because there are issues that are complex and that really, thank you for opening up and letting us hear…who you are in that authenticity and originality and essence from Tehuantepec.
L: Yes, thanks to you too, and please give my regards to Peter, Peter Parker.
S: Yes, ha ha. Okay. Well thank you very much, Lukas, uhh, I really have no words to thank you.
L: No, well thanks Stephanie. If you don’t ask me those questions, too, I won’t suddenly turn over the stone.
S: No no, it was, I enjoyed it a lot and well, to have the opportunity to get to know you a little more like this, I hope that in the future we can please, uhh, see each other in person and see a little more of your shows because the truth is we really enjoy them. Anyway, have a good afternoon, thank you for these two hours. And whatever you need, we are in contact.
L: Thank you very much
S: Goodbye.
S: We are deeply grateful to Lukas Avendaño for this interview. We invite you to follow Lukas through his social networks @muxe_lukas_avendano_muxes and to share all relevant information about the events related to the disappearance of Bruno Avendaño and the more than 60 thousand families who are victims of forced disappearance in Mexico. Lukas will continue to take his art around the world so that, in the words of Alina Escobedo of the digital magazine Plumas Atómica, “rebel against the oppressive reality of a lawless country.”
REFERENCES:
- Lukas Avendaño: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lukas_Avenda%C3%B1o
- Bruno Alonso Avendaño: https://piedepagina.mx/regreso-bruno-ahora-comienza-la-lucha-por-la-verdad-y-por-la-justicia-lukas-avendano/
- Rompeviento TV: https://www.rompeviento.tv/
- Tehuantepec, Oaxaca: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tehuantepec
- Regional Vice Prosecutor’s Office of the Isthmus of Tehuantepec: http://fge.oaxaca.gob.mx/index.php/vicefiscalia-regional-istmo
- State of Oaxaca: http://www.pgj.oaxaca.gob.mx/
- Attorney General of the Republic: https://www.gob.mx/fgr
- Ombudsman for Human Rights of the Peoples of Oaxaca: https://www.derechoshumanosoaxaca.org/
- National Human Rights Commission: https://www.cndh.org.mx/
- 61,637 disappeared in Mexico: https://www.jornada.com.mx/2020/01/07/politica/007n1pol
- Chimera: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimera_(mythology)
- Isthmus region: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isthmus_of_Tehuantepec#:~:text=The%20isthmus%20includes%20the%20part,and%20Oaxaca%20on%20the%20west.
- law school in Oaxaca City: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benito_Ju%C3%A1rez_Autonomous_University_of_Oaxaca
- Xalapa, Veracruz: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xalapa
- Veracruzan University: https://www.bachelorstudies.com/universities/Mexico/UV/
- Transference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transference
- Martha Graham: https://marthagraham.org/
- Cerezo, which is the East Rehabilitation Center: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centro_Federal_de_Readaptaci%C3%B3n_Social_n.%C2%BA_1
- Muxe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muxe
- Two Spirit: https://lgbtqhealth.ca/community/two-spirit.php
- Berdache: http://nativeamericannetroots.net/diary/313
- Manitou: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manitou_(disambiguation)
- ‘Los Hombres enchaquirados,’: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/227761474_The_Representation_of_Guayaquil’s_Sexual_Past_Historicizing_the_Enchaquirados
- Zapotecs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapotec_peoples
- Quinceañera: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quincea%C3%B1era
- Mixtequilla: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Mar%C3%ADa_Mixtequilla
- Mexico City: https://www.cdmx.gob.mx/
- UNAM University Cultural Center: http://cdmxtravel.com/en/attractions/unam-university-cultural-center-centro-cultural-universitario-de-la-unam.html
- Sonora: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonora
- Greenfield: https://ci.greenfield.ca.us/
- Salinas, California: https://www.cityofsalinas.org/
- Zapatistas: https://hemisphericinstitute.org/en/su10-tourism/item/879-su10-brief-historical-background-zapatista-movement.html
- Coyote: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coyote_(person)
- Teotihuacan: https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/414/
- Eduardo Galeano: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eduardo_Galeano
- Octavio Paz: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octavio_Paz
- Réquiem para un alcaraván: https://vimeo.com/152631668
- “No soy persona, soy mariposa”:
https://www.moves.mx/lukas-avendano-no-soy-persona - Tehuanas: https://hauteculturefashion.com/tehuana/
- Juchitecas: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juchit%C3%A1n_de_Zaragoza
- Yukio, Mishima: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yukio_Mishima
- Akira Kurosawa: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akira_Kurosawa
- Marcel Marceau: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcel_Marceau
- National Center for the Arts: https://www.cenart.gob.mx/
- La Cebra Danza Gay: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Cebra_Danza_Gay
- ‘Mares of the Apocalypse’: http://english.yeguasdelapocalipsis.cl/
- Mule: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mule
- The Gospel according to Saint John: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMf9XDQBAaI
- Pedro Lemebel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_Lemebel
- Onnagata: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onnagata#:~:text=Onnagata%20or%20oyama%20(Japanese%3A%20%E5%A5%B3%E5%BD%A2,roles%20in%20Japanese%20Kabuki%20theatre.
- Tamasaburo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Band%C5%8D_Tamasabur%C5%8D_V
- Zapatista Army of National Liberation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapatista_Army_of_National_Liberation