Episode 2.6
Interview with Melanie Yazzie, by Peter Hay on Dec. 15th, 2020
Click here to listen to Episode 2.6
Reference list at bottom of page
“Pedro Belongs to Nesbah” – 30″ x 30″ Acrylic painting 
“They Bring Quiet” – 11″ x 8.5″ Relief Print 
Peter (P): A printmaker, painter, and sculptor, the work of today’s guest draws upon her rich Diné cultural heritage. She works to serve as an agent of change by encouraging others to learn about social, cultural, and political phenomena shaping the contemporary lives of Native peoples in the United States and beyond. She travels the world to connect with other Indigenous peoples. Her visits to New Zealand, the Arctic, the Pueblos in the Southwest, and to Indigenous peoples of Russia have been the impetus for continued dialogue about cultural practices, language, song, story-telling, and survival. She is represented by Glenn Green Gallery in Santa Fe, New Mexico, her work is held in many collections around the USA and internationally, and participated in over 500 group and solo exhibitions. Melanie Yazzie has been reviewed in Focus Magazine, Santa Fe, the Los Angeles Times, New Zealand Herald, and she is mentioned in ‘Printmaking in the Sun’ by Dan Welden and Pauline Muir and ‘The Lure of the Local: Sense of Place in a Multi Centered Society’ by Lucy Lippard.
P: Welcome to the podcast, Melanie. Thank you for joining us today.
Melanie (M): Thank you for having me.
P: I just read a little bio with a little bit about you, but I’m wondering if you would want to tell us who you are.
M: Um, let’s see. I- I’m a professor of art, I guess, Art practice is at the University of Colorado in Boulder, Colorado, and I run the printmaking program there. Um, I’m, I guess, Diné and I was raised on the Navajo reservation. And in high school went away to a Quaker boarding school, then came back to, um, Arizona after living in Mexico for, for almost a year. Then, starting my undergraduate studies at the University of Arizona, going to graduate school after a year, uh, off, um, here at the University of Colorado, Boulder. So I just, through my process, I’ve traveled a lot, been to a lot of different places. And I think all of those things form who I am as a contemporary Navajo woman artist.
P: Yeah. I saw that you had lived in Mexico. And what did you do while you were there in Mexico?
M: I went, um, when at my high school, um, they had this thing called senior projects, and I went initially as, like, an exchange student for about a month and I wanted to go back to Mexico after that. I had applied to Arizona State University, but I just felt, like- I had spent three years at a college prep school on the East coast and ready to start college. So I took- I delayed going to ASU and then went back to Mexico and lived there for about a year. And when I was there, I, um, sat in on classes at a public school to learn Spanish and just to immerse myself in the culture. And a lot of it was tied to my mother’s father, um, had always, um- we’d always been told that his father was of, um, Mexican background and he was never acknowledged. And so my grandfather, twice in his life, went to see this man who was a Mexican to ask if he could…if he was his father, and he was denied that. And so, that part of my history, it’s, like, part of my oral history that, that that’s part of our- who we are. And so part of going to Mexico was to get to know that part of my lineage. And, um, so being there, I was sitting on classes as an ‘oyente,’ like auditing and just learning Spanish and learning about, um, I guess how, in Mexico, Indigenous people were seen during that time period. That, that was something that I was learning about. I mean, I, I didn’t go there and say- saying that I was going to do that, but I- during my time that I witnessed a lot of different things.
P: Okay, interesting. And do you- do you feel like that had some influence on the things that you make now?
M: Yeah, definitely. I think, um, what really played a huge role in me and my artwork also was the time period that I spent at, um, Westtown School outside of Philadelphia, it’s a Quaker school and my art teacher there was Caroline Lewis. Um, she- her focus was, um, painting, printmaking and it’s where I started making prints. And she sort of taught me the basics of, um, just how to make art and, and look at art. And she really gave me confidence in telling my story or, or seeing me as an artist and then being at the Quaker school that we were, um, looking out at the world and, and the belief in, um, for most Quakers is you don’t practice violence and, um, you try to, I guess, make the world a better place. And so when I went to Mexico, I was looking at, at, you know, um, how I could stand on my- on my own two feet as an Indigenous woman, and looking at how Indigenous people were living in Mexico at the time. And I think finding my voice and the strength to speak out in a situation where- this was in the, um, late 1980s. And, um, at that time in Mexico, to tell people that you were Indigenous, nobody wanted to hear that. And I found it really odd because everybody was a mix of, of an Indigenous person. And I found it strange that so many people would try to connect themselves to Spain, but not connect themselves to their Indigenous heritage or the Indigenous people in the area. And that was something at that time when I was living there, that people didn’t want to acknowledge. And I had no problems with telling people over and over that I was a, “Soy India,” and they tell me, “Don’t say that.” And so that period really reinforced me wanting to tell people who I am and where I’m coming from and being proud of it. And, um, the reaction of the community, not wanting me to say that, made me stronger in the fact that I needed to tell people. So that those… that time period really helped me even more so, um, speak out on different issues within- from my community, within my community. And, um, yeah, so it plays a huge role in, in who I am and how I, how I see the world.
P: Interesting. And, um, you mentioned printmaking and, um, speaking out through your work and I’m curious, could you tell us a little bit more about what it is you make?
M: Um, I, I started out, um, in high school being really fascinated with printmaking. My, one of my high school roommates, uh, her name was Hanes Front. And she since has passed away. And she, yeah, she, um, was a really amazing poet, but she made etchings. And I remember when I first saw her etchings that I felt the paper and just thought, what is this? This is amazing. And smelt the ink, and I was just really attracted to, to prints. And so I signed up for, uh, an art class and started learning about, um, printmaking and, um, did a lot of screen printing. And I really gravitated towards sort of the low-tech print methods because I always thought that I would be back on- living back on the Navajo nation, um, living in my parents’ garage, making artwork and not having a lot of money. And, um, and I thought, I’m not going to have access to all of these fancy things. So I focused on screen printing in the beginning and, um, relief printing, um, things that you could do just at your own kitchen table. Um, and I think I’ve always, you know, done things that are, um, low tech and try to do things that are safer for the environment. And it’s taken me to a lot of different places around the world because people want to learn about safer ways of doing printmaking and they want to learn from someone like me. Who’s not afraid to share their story and encourage students to tell their own story.
P: Yeah, I’m I, well, I first off, I love printmaking. That was something I studied when I was in graduate school and, um, but it was not non-toxic at all. Um, and, but I also, I really fell in love with it for like a lot of the same reasons. I really, the, the machines, I really loved the processes. I loved the inks. I loved, you know, um, I love the structure of it even. Um, and there’s a lot, you know, printmaking almost all of the, um, printmaking methods were developed to, to share information originally, um, communicate.
M: Yeah, Definitely. I think that’s what is so democratic about printmaking is that it was a process that was able to, you know, take religious imagery to the masses. Um, I think in the early days, you know, wealthy people could have somebody make a painting of, of something religious and have it in their home, but to get it out to the masses they use printmaking. And I think throughout history, what I love about it is that print, um, print processes and printmaking has been used to take a message out to the public.
P: Do you, do you feel like you’re doing that through your work as well?
M: I feel like I am, and I love, uh, the process of making multiples. Like, um, I think in my early years of making works in the 1980s and 90s that I always focused on sort of making monotypes and, um, it would be a varied edition and, um, really making each of the pieces unique. And I always always tell people, like, it, it’s a print, but it’s also like a small painting because each of them have its own voice and its own, um, thing that’s happening with it.
P: Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, a lot of times we think of prints, we think of perfect multiples of a hundred. Um, but you, you definitely don’t do it that way on the work that you do is all very individual and very unique. And it has a lot of layers of, of color and, um, transparencies, overlaps. And I feel like there’s a lot of storytelling, um, that happens through the, is it, are you, um, I’m assuming you’re still working on that sort of work and that storytelling.
M: Part of the work. And I think the work’s inspired by events that are happening in my life and in our communities. And I rely on animal imagery and plants and, um, and have like this really varied palette of colors that I work with. Um, depending on the series, there’s different things that come out of it, but I really have a sense of, like, gravitating towards a pallet with each series of prints that I’m working on. And that palette is reflecting my mood, my, um, state of mind. And I believe that my artwork- in my artwork, I’m really in a sense, trying to create a world, a better, more beautiful world for myself, and to, to, um, I guess, create a beautiful path in which, um, I’m more whole and more positive with my worldview. When I was in graduate school, I was making a lot of work that was dealing with history that was really heavy with things that were facts from our history. And I was living with that negative energy and anger, and I felt that it really wasn’t doing me, um, I don’t know, doing me any favors in that I was living in such a sad, angry place. And I felt that if I’m going to continue to do the work I’m doing, I need to find a way in which my artwork, in a sense, is going to heal me to provide a positive outlet for myself to create, um, what I would love to see in the world. And so, at times, I get criticized by people for the work being very, uh, I hate this word, whimsical and cute and beautiful, and, and I’m starting to try to, to get used to my work being described that way, because I need to realize that the work is doing this, this heavy work of bringing beauty into the world and, and creating a better place. And when people would criticize my work and say, “It’s too happy or too this.” And I said, you know, “What if I made it about the reality, like, I would probably kill myself.” The reality of what’s happening in the world is so heavy. And, um, it’s ever present within, uh, my Indigenous community, the alcoholism, the, um, the suicide rates, the, uh, drug issues, the interpersonal problems that are happening within families. And, you know, as a result of what’s happened within our communities, the breaking down of culture, it’s, it’s really, um, heavy. And so that’s my, that’s the reality that I know and live with. And so when I’m making my work, I’m trying to create a beautiful place in which my soul and my heart can go to, if that’s making any sense. And so, when I get people who negate the work or write it off, I have to tell myself, like, that it’s doing a more powerful thing by creating this beautiful place.
P: Mm yeah. Yeah. It’s, um, it’s, it’s interesting because the, the idea of, like, whimsy in art is very, I feel like, um, I think if it comes from a Western perspective, you know? Because if you think of, like, that historical art, it’s all very heavy, it’s all, you know, it’s either historical recording historical events or it’s biblical. Um, but when you look at, and a lot of times indigenous art is much more based in, um, sort of, um, stylized versions of reality. And, you know, uh, oral tradition or, um, ceremonial tradition. And I feel like that idea of whimsy is something that’s like, it places it on it to, like, lessen it. And it’s, you know, in the first time I saw some of your work because you were going to teach a workshop. And I was looking at the work that, um, where the examples online and, um, around that time I went to, uh, SWAIA, any other market in Santa Fe. And me and my daughter were there and we were walking around and, uh, as it does in Santa Fe in the summertime, it started to rain in the afternoon. So we, like, were like, what do we do to get out of the rain? So we jumped into the New Mexico, uh, the New Mexico Museum of Art, and we were walking through and there was an exhibition up, and I believe it was about self portraits. And there was a piece there of yours on display that’s in the collection, I believe. And, um, and it was like, it was, um, it had some of the, you know, quote unquote, like, whimsy that you’re talking about- like we’re talking about. But it was also placed upon a map in the piece. So it seemed very directly to be about place and about, um,
M: Yup. I use a lot of maps in, in the work I make to speak about land-based and, in a sense, a tiny reminder to people that all, a lot of this land was indigenous land or belong to people who work the land. And, um, so at times I’ll print a ghost image of a map in the background, and then the rest of the images that I’m making on top of that to mix it up and, um, and try to, you know. Have hidden messages within the work that remind people of history.
P: Interesting. Interesting. And how do you, I guess you, you sort of just talked about this, but I’m curious to know how you as an artist have, have sort of determined what is important for you to make or, or pursue, or do you feel like it’s always just sort of been there and you’re just putting it out?
M: Um, I think, you know, I just- when I was growing up, I always tended to just create things. Like, I just have this need and this, um, drive to make and create things. Whether it’s a sewn together little animal, if it’s, like, just, um, playing with color. I was a kid, but that’s always been ever present. And then the messages, it really is just responding to what’s happening in the world and what’s going through me and, um, the dreams I’m having or different things that are happening within my life path, I put into the work. And at times I’m invited to participate and work on a project that has a theme. And, um, so that might guide the direction of what I’m making. But a lot of times the themes are just ever present and they draw back to my personal experience and as an Indigenous per-, person living in this world, um, there’s always that, that- that’s ever present in the work. So, I don’t- it’s funny. ‘Cause sometimes people are like, are you researching this or that? I’m like, well, I’m actually living it. Um, uh, last week at the university- I’m a full professor. But someone thought I was a janitor and people walk up to me and I’m brown and they think I’m the cleaning person. So they start asking if I speak, uh, Spanish and sometimes I’ll educate them and tell them, no, I’m a full professor, and you know, and really give it to them. Or I say to them, “No hablo ingles,” and walk away because I just don’t even want to deal with, with stupidity. Um, so like, like the research is in my experience.
P: Mm yeah. Yeah. That’s really, um, that’s both timely, but it’s also like the past and the future, all like smashed into one experience like that, that I’m sure he’s not the standalone. Um, so that’s, yeah,
M: I know it always takes people back. Because, uh, I remember I was in, uh, New Mexico once at the University of New Mexico in Albuquerque; UNM, yeah. And I was gonna, I was somewhere in a library or I don’t know, doing a tour or something. And this, this anglo guy came up to me and he was like, “Oh my god, it’s so nice to meet you. You’re Navajo.” And I said, “Yeah.” And he said, you know, “Do you speak Navajo?” And I said, “Well, I speak it like a child, but I speak Spanish fluently.” And he was like, “Shame on you, shame on you for not knowing how to speak Navajo.” And I just looked at him and then I, you know, this anger rose up into me and I said, “Look, you know what? Shame on you, shame on you for not knowing that our people and lands have been taken from us, that my mom was sent to a boarding school that my dad was treated badly for, for not speaking English well enough. Shame on you for not knowing that my parents chose to teach us English so that we would not be treated badly in school. And yeah, there are reasons I don’t speak Navajo fluently, and shame on you for not knowing that. And how many other people have you treated this way, that we quietly don’t say anything and let you treat us this way. But today I’m going to tell you, shame on you.”
P: Yeah.
M: Yeah. I don’t know where that, like, it just re-upped it in me. And he was just like, “Oh my god.” And I was like, it’s like, you can’t shame people for not knowing their language. Like, there’s so many different reasons there and everyone has a different story. And I just, I sorta just lost it on this man. Um, it really, like- that’s, that’s what our experience is. And so at times when people ask me that question of, tell me about your research, and I’m just like, holy crap. I wish I wasn’t living my research. You know, different people are like, “Oh, I’m learning about the African Diaspora. I’m doing this.” And like, you know, “I’ve read about this.” And I’m like, I wish I could just read about this. I wish I didn’t experience it. I wish, like, I could just read it, but I have to research it and live it. Um, and that’s what makes it difficult and hard.
P: Yeah. Yeah. And is that I, you know, it’s interesting because you’re talking about, like- it is, it’s lived experience. And there was this, um, it reminds me of- you actually did another podcast a few years ago. Um, and it was just straight storytelling. And there was the- you, you spoke about, um, your grandmother and that, and the influence as well on making.
M: Yeah. My, my grandmother was a traditional weaver. This is my mom’s mom. And I spent a lot of time with my, my mom’s parents growing up. They were sorta like my parents in a sense cause they, they were there in my early years and just loved me and supported me in such a beautiful way. And she was a weaver and I, um, saw and learned about creating a studio from her practice. Um, and of course we didn’t call it, any of that. We just said, you know, “Grandma has to do her work and her weaving.” So, you know, this- her, her weaving space was always her space. Um, no one said, like, it was sacred or, you know. But it felt sacred because nobody bothered her when she was weaving. And there was, there was this rhythm and ritual. And the way in which she went about making her work that, I think taught me about, um, how to become an artist and what, what should be important to us. And I think that a lot of times, um, we wonder where those, we wonder where those, um, practices come from. And I, I think they’re learned practices if you’re lucky enough to have somebody who, um, who was an artist in your family or a creator.
P: Hmm, yeah. Um, so to, to jump back to the story you were telling before I asked you about your grandma…I’m, I’m curious because you’ve done a lot of print exchanges internationally. And I know you visited and worked with Indigenous communities around the world, or visited and spoke with and taught. Um, do you- are these the stories that you told me about the, the white man talking about the, um, you know, shaming you for different aspects? Do you find that these are stories that are shared?
M: Yeah, I think, I think a lot of people go through those different things. And, um, when I create and work on my print exchanges, it’s, it’s in a response to, um, I guess trying to find a place for younger artists to be supported by more advanced artists. And when I create those print exchanges, it’s about making that connection. Because when I was going through school, and then also teach- teaching and looking at hiring different people in different positions, it’s the people who have the strong exhibition records that get jobs. And I figured, I remember at one point some, you know, at various points in my career, people have said, “Oh, you’re so lucky you’re Native. And that you’re a woman, that you just get all these opportunities given to you and you don’t even have to try very hard.” Um, I realized that, yeah, I do get these opportunities to travel to New Zealand, to France, to Japan, to Russia, you know, all these different places I’ve been to…it’s my Indigenous heritage. But I always tell people it’s my hard work that has gotten me there. And I realized, after time, that if I’m going to be going to these places, then I want to be creating print exchanges and projects that I can carry my voice and my work, but also all these other artists with me to place in different collections to show their work in all these different places so that their work can be highlighted and they can build, build their resumes to even qualify for some of the jobs that are out there. Um, so, you know, over 10 years ago, I started organizing tons and tons of print exchanges to open the doors and create a path for other people and a support system.
P: Yeah. Yeah. Um, and through that work, do you feel that, um, you have been able to, uh, see some positive outcomes?
M: I’ve seen a lot of people over the years whose resumes have been built up. And now, some of those people are tenure track professors at other schools. It’s because they had an exhibit in Dubai. It’s because they had work put in a collection in Ireland. Um, their work is in France, it’s in Russia, it’s in all these places. And it’s the international exhibits on someone’s CV that, that boosts them up to another level and qualifies them for a position at a research one university or, um, in these different places. And realizing that, and I knew, I saw that that’s how these projects could really help people and change the landscape of, of the field.
P: Yeah. And it’s, it’s interesting that somebody would say that you have opportunities because you’re Indigenous, because that’s not traditionally the way the world works. And I feel like there’s still a lot of, you know, um, there’s still a lot…
M: It’s kind of barriers, but it’s so amazing to me how often in my career I’ve had people tell me that. And also say to me, “Oh my god, you must get tons of grants because you’re a woman and, um, you’re Native. And you could probably just get all this money to do your research.” And I proudly say, “No, I worked hard. I taught summer school and I got the money to travel from this.” And I early on learned that sometimes some of these grant moneys are tied to either people or organizations that want to take advantage of either Indigenous communities or people of color. And there is this, uh…quid pro quo that happens with it. And I thought, you know what? I want to teach summer school or when we put a print exchange together, everybody pays a little part to participate in. That pays for the boxes, the shipping of the work to go back to the artists, to go to the collections, and it takes care of itself so that I’m not, like, waiting for some grant to come through. Or I’m not waiting for some approval system. We put ourselves in control when we do that.
P: Well, and, and you’ve, you know, you’ve been prolific in the amount of art that you’ve made and the amount of exhibitions in the past, you know, 20 years. So it’s, uh, you know, it just seems like it’s a, it’s a very diminishing comment that turns a blind eye…
M: It’s maddening. But, um, I just, I realized over the years that when someone says that they’re just coming from a really uninformed place, and when they start to see what I’ve done or look at my, you know, 50, 60 page resume, they’re like, “Holy crap.” Like, I’m, like, yeah, I am constantly working. Nothing has been given to me, I, like, worked my butt off and I am, like, laser focused on just getting work out there all the time and pushing it. And because I’m up against so many other people who are negating everything, I do, every step of the way.
P: So is that, I mean, in general, is that how you cope with criticism?
M: Creating another project, making more happen, putting positive out into the world. Of course, I’m, like, upset when something happens, you know, that’s not so nice. But then I think I, I have to look back to how I was brought up is, like, what can you do to change the situation? You can’t, like, sit around being sad or crying about it. You need, you need to get back to work and do something about it. So my doing something about it is to make some work, um, to create a print exchange, to reach out to other artists, to hear their stories, to get their stories out into the world. And I always tell my young printmakers, when they say, “I don’t know how I can do it.” I say to them, “Create, curate a project, create a print exchange of people you would really admire.” And I said, “And if somebody tries to put those people down, the strength to speak out will come to you because these are people you admire, stories that you think are amazing, and you won’t let people shut that down.” It’s easy for us to let our own stories be shut down. But when you become a caregiver and, and a, um, an organizer of other people’s stories, you have- you take on this responsibility to get their stories out there. And if anyone tries to stop you, it’s not about a personal thing anymore. It’s about this community you’ve created. And it gives you strength to stand up against those people, because you’re not going to let somebody trample on your loved ones.
P: Yeah. And so, um, speaking of the grants and the quid pro quo and, um…all that happens because I, you know that, a lot where you have an institution that says, “Oh, we want to do this monstrous project. We want you to be part of it. And we’re going to pay you this much.” And you look at the hourly breakdown, that’s like a dollar an hour, you know? And, um, so I guess I’m curious to know, like, what do you think, um, the Indigenous arts community could really use right now?
M: Well, it just depends on the community because each entity is different. Um, depending on what community you’re speaking with, it’s really spending time with the community, learning what that community, um, where they’re at and helping them meet what they’ve set up as their own goals. And so it’s really, it’s, it’s not an easy answer because there’s so many different Indigenous communities.
P: So right now in the contemporary art world or, um, academic scene that you’re in, is there an interesting new movement or concept that you see developing?
M: Um, yeah. Teaching classes by zoom. Um, and, like, it’s interesting to work with students now during COVID because, um, we’re all trying to figure out how to move forward. And, and it’s interesting because what I’ve been telling my students is that we’re- you’re all on, uh, artists residencies. This is what an artist residency feels like. It’s your world upside down. It makes you look at things differently. Um, but you get the luxury of experiencing it as a group with me as your teacher. And we’ll share what each of you is going through and talk about our artwork. And then you get to be in your own home space to create a studio within your home environment. And this is what it feels like after you graduate from the university. So you’re experiencing it now. And if you can make artwork during this time with the support of being in a class, like that’s huge. Which it feels horrible, but it really is about- I, I really liken it to that feeling of once you graduate and you don’t have access to all the, the amazing equipment. But it’s the hardest point in which you have so many questions going through your mind, that if you have a group of people who will listen and somebody who can help you get through it, that’s gigantic. So I’ve, I’ve been telling people, actually, this time feels upside down and crazy, but it’s going to be like amazing what comes out of it.
P: It’s, it’s fortifying a lot of people in that, in that regard.
M: Yup. Because you know, there’s a time period in which, I think last spring, we’re all looking at our rooms and freaking out. And now, you know, people are starting to pick up, like your podcast is happening. People are doing videos on YouTube. Like everyone’s reaching out to each other. We did a virtual print conference, um, that my graduate students put together and had people do presentations by zoom. And then they, yeah, they recorded all the presentations and we had demonstrations and panels. And then, um, that was what I used for the rest of the fall semester, because all my students couldn’t watch all of them, but we had 16 different presentations that were each an hour long that I could have them watch then. And then we could talk about them afterwards. And it was really an amazing, um, education tool.
P: Huh. And is that online? Can people view that?
M: It was, uh, “Embracing the Wilds” was the name of the conference? I’m not sure if it’s still up, but one of my grad students built the website for it and everything. And, and it, it was great because, um, when, like- we were meeting hybrids. So sometimes it was in person and then other times it was online. And when we had to go online, I could just tell my students, watch this thing and we’ll talk about it. And that’s, that’s something very new and current within the contemporary art world right now is everybody’s experiencing this and everyone’s finding their way through it. So when you ask me like, what’s happening, that’s what’s happening.
P: Wow. Yeah. It makes me think that, like I was, I was talking the other day with my mom and she was asking about my daughter and school being online, being virtual, you know. And there are struggles for sure. I know that some of them are more difficult to learn than others virtually, but her ability, now, to navigate a computer is like, you know, just…it blows my mind. I mean, I think when I was 10 and my knowledge of the computer, and it was pretty much non-existent, yeah. It was, you know, of course that’s because computers were not as existent then either, but, um, yeah, but still. Like, I just- they’re going to be very technologically savvy age after this. Yeah.
M: I, I think at times, um, it’s helped me learn how to do Zoom, but it hasn’t helped me learn how to download apps on my phone.
P: So its a challenge, that’s where creativity comes in. You just have to…
M: I, like, right now, it’s, it’s COVID. And what COVID has brought us is, it’s forcing us to reach out to others in different ways. And it’s making bridges where bridges didn’t exist before, which is happening everywhere. Um, which I think is really great. Um, because I, you know, I did my visiting artists, uh, lectures with different universities. They all turn to doing things online. And I still met with grad students and looked at their artwork and their studios, and we had, um, critiques of their work. And I did my lectures to, uh, a full room of, you know, a hundred people. And then I had a Q&A afterwards. So it’s, it hasn’t stopped a lot of things for me. And then it’s interesting, the ones that said we have to stop, they, you know, two months later they’re like, “You know what, this isn’t going away. So let’s, let’s plan a new time and let’s do it.” And I’m like, “Great, let’s go.”
P: Yeah, yeah, so, like, I guess this has really shifted all of your, um, your time and the way you function. What does a normal day look like for you right now? I mean, you just finished the semester, correct?
M: We finished the semester, and right now, um, like personally, I’ve- we’ve just moved into a new home. Um, unfortunately, my mom got COVID in September and was in intensive care for 23 days and then, yeah, passed away in October, but we had already sold our home because we wanted to have her come live with us. And so, right now, my world is all about unpacking and moving into a new home and much larger home because we thought my mom was going to be coming to live with us. So, so, that whole aspect of what’s happening with me, it’s, like, I’m unpacking my past as I move into a new home and, and remembering different parts of my life and different parts of, like, just things that I’ve collected over the years. And one of them being a book on, uh, on the Indian slave trade. I can’t remember the name of it, but I brought- I found that book and thought, “Oh my gosh, I need to look back into that.” And, um, and in the unpacking, it made me think of just all kinds of different things from my past. And, so, I think at times, everyone’s going through that because, um, students have had to move out of the studios and pack up their studios and move home and set up a studio at home. And in that shift, everybody’s sort of in this place of packing and unpacking things. And, um, like conceptually, that just brings up so many other things with our work and our practice as artists.
P: Wow, yeah. It’s definitely shifted everything. And I’m very sorry to hear about your mother.
M: I think it’s hard. Like, I’m going through it and there’s this gigantic sadness because I wasn’t able to see her. And, um- but that’s something that thousands of people are going through, is that people are passing and you can’t see them. Um, we can’t travel and it’s just, it’s crippling, at times. Um, so this, this time period is bringing so much good and so much bad. It’s just this again, gigantic mix. And, and, and part of like right now that what I’m going through in my daily life is, is just learning how to heal myself from, from this time period that we’re in. And I think, I think it’s what we’re all doing is we wake up and, you know, you turn the news on and hear the latest numbers. And now there’s a vaccine out and who’s going to get the vaccine first and the, and the politics of that. And I just, I’m ever grateful for the people who are on the front lines, helping people and being there for those of us who can’t be with our loved ones and, and trying to think of a way that you can honor those people and, um, and thank them for work that’s, like, thankless.
P: Yeah. And seems endless right now.
M: Exactly. It’s endless. And, um, so anyhow, my, my days start out with, with look- hearing the news, um, and then, and then trying to focus on finding balance. And, and taking care of my soul and myself, and then moving forward with the task of either creating work about, now, um, about writing to myself about what’s happening. And then finding creative time to, to keep making the work that you know, is, is going to make a change as we move forward. But it just doesn’t seem that it’s going to make a difference right now, but at some point it will.
P: Yeah, there’s yeah. Like you mentioned, the vaccine we’re- hopefully in the next, we, we can see light at the end of the tunnel.
M: In summer of 2021 is when people will, like everyone will be able to get access to it. And, um, but they say that this whole thing is going to be ever present that, like, pandemics are just a part of our future and we just have to, um, prepare for, like, that part of the future. And that that’s, what’s hard for me to absorb is how things will change and are changing.
P: Hmm. Yeah. And there’s, um, there’s a lot of things tied into that as well, too, um, into development and land and globalism and spread of capitalism and all of these things that are, um, kind of fanning the flames of these problems.
M: Yes. Yes. I think, um, all of that is, is out there. And I formed a project called “Reflecting on 2020”, and I invited, um, about, I think we, in the end, we had about 64, or between 55 and 64 artists who responded and everyone responded with what their experience has been like living in this 2020. And some have been really positive. Some have been heartbreaking. Um, but that exhibit of, of prints will be shown at the University of Colorado in the coming year or two. And, um, and hopefully more people will be able to create their stories in their artworks about what’s happening to them now. And, and we’ll mark this time that we’re all in.
P: Hmm. Yeah. Well, I’ll have to, I’ll have to keep an eye out for that. And we’ll link whatever we can to our website, you know, so we can share- to share some of this into the world as well. Um, so being that we still have months or year, or, um, as you said, like, moving into the future in general with pandemic, um…I know a lot of people are trying to figure out ways to keep themselves entertained or educated at home. So I have a few short answer questions about, uh, about those topics. Um, if you want to move into that little section, um, so do you have a favorite, like, music album that you’re listening to to keep yourself going?
M: Oh my gosh, I have always loved Big Head Todd. I love their music and when I need to make artwork or push through a difficult time, I’ve listened to Big Head Todd. Not just an album. Like they have a whole grouping of albums that I love to listen to.
P: Any of it is good. Good. And what about a favorite movie? I know we’ve had more time than normal, too.
M: Oh my God. Favorite movie? Um, in the, in my high school days, my favorite film was, um, Last Horizon. There’s the black and white film. And that, you know, even now, at times, that, that’s still one of my favorite movies, because it’s such a strange idea of going through this shame LA that were- you never grow old and it’s hidden in the Himalayas. Um, that has carried me through a lot. Um, uh, and then another…I’m trying to think of another film that- really, there’s so many different ones. It’s hard to say. There’s one by a filmmaker in New Zealand. Oh my god. What’s his name? Um, he’s, he, he’s done a bunch of films, but there’s one that I love called Boy. He, he’s now working on a Mandalorian and he’s also done The Rabbit. What is it? Uh, the Nazi movie with, uh, something…Jojo Rabbit…wh- wh- White T. Uh, I can’t remember his name. But he’s a mode, a Jewish Modi, a filmmaker. Everybody who’s listening is like, shouting it out, “How can you not know?”
P: Well, I think I know who it is, and he’s working on a, he’s working on a, uh, a series right now in Oklahoma with Sterlin Harjo. Okay. I did the same thing. I’m drawing a blank. I can remember Sterlin.
M: And that, uh, film, Boy, that he did that, I think it was only featured in New Zealand, is really incredible. Oh my god. And then he did another one, um, something of the Wilderpeople.
P: Okay. And w-we’ll link all of that. I’ll be sure.
M: But he’s amazing. His, um, story from a different point of view and Indigenous worldview, which is really beautiful.
P: Yeah. And what about a favorite book? Is there something that you’re reading right now? You mentioned the book about the Indian slave trade.
M: Gosh, um, a lot of books. It’s, it’s not so much that I’m, I’m reading right now, but I’m, uh, I have a collection of antique books. I’m always looking for antique books that carry maps and looking at maps from like the early 1800s. And, um, going through my collection of, of antique books is, is- what I do is, oftentimes, when I’m looking or quote-unquote, reading, I’m feeling the surface of the pages to feel the letter press on the paper. And it gives me such calmness. Uh, I, I add, my, um, birthday was at the end of November, and a good friend of mine from Las Vegas, New Mexico sent me an antique book. And I just remember when I got it, I just felt like, Oh my God, this is so beautiful. It was from the hundreds and all letter, press wood engravings. It’s just gorgeous. And so what I do when I’m, um, quote-unquote reading is I’m going through my old antique books and filling the paper surfaces and smelling the pages and just, um, reveling at the printing methods of the past.
P: Yeah. Yeah. It’s going to save the printing. And those old books are so much different than, And it is now.
M: Oh my god, it’s spectacular, it’s the pages, the paper, the quality of the paper is amazing. And so, a lot of times when I’m looking at those books, I’m feeling them and smelling them and, and then looking at how world history has changed and how they describe things during those times- that time period.
P: Yeah, I guess it could be like inspiration for some of the work.
M: That’s exactly what it is. It’s looking up things. Cause like, if you look at some of those older drawings of animals that- like rhinoceroses and different animals, like, they, they’d never seen one. So they drew these things out of what descriptions people gave them. And so, some of the animals sometimes look really funky and weird, and it’s just, it’s amazing to see some of that.
P: Yeah. I, I love those old books as well. And I, I did some book arts once upon a time. I hadn’t made a book at the time, but the binding and all of the forethought, It’s such a-
M: There’s such a science about making books and bookmaking. And I think during this time period, um, people should research bookmaking and book, um, binding because you can, you can learn how and teach yourself how to do some of those things during this time period that we’re in. Um, because it’s such a beautiful art form.
P: Yeah. And it’s accessible.
M: Exactly. And then you can write your stories in those.
P: There you go. It’s a good Christmas present idea too. Um, so I, I really very much appreciate your time today, Melanie. I don’t want to take too much more of it, but I like to ask, um, one final question before I let you go. And it’s around, what advice that you would give a young person that would be beginning in their professional life, in the creative fields or in your field, or maybe something that you wish you knew when you were getting,
M: Um, I would say, uh, to keep making your artwork, no matter what people tell you, like just keep making it. It’s through the making that you will improve and reach out to mentors, get to know people that you admire. We’re in this time period where email and social media can put you in touch with people that you admire and, um, and make that, build your networking, like make it stronger by out not being afraid. Uh, then when you contact them, those people will begin to help guide you. And ask them, ask them if they would be your mentor. There’s something in the asking that is really quite amazing when, um, when that comes about. And, and it puts that person in a place of honor. And, and then the responsibility that they’re giving back to you by, um, by that question, it’s, I don’t know, it’s something really beautiful. And so I always encourage my young artists to find mentors, to keep making, work no matter what. And if they get a really difficult crit- critique, then listen to some of the feedback. And then keep making and work your way through those difficult times by making the work every day.
P: Some wonderful advice, wonderful advice for all ages as well. Not just being here.
M: Yeah. Yeah.
P: Well, um, maybe- you also described a little bit about my personal motivations for this podcast and interview series. Um, cause I feel like it’s been really amazing to reach out to people like you, who I’ve admired for years, and I’m just, I’m really blown away with what you’re able to create and the networks you build. And, uh, the motivation you have to keep going and, and make the way you do.
M: Yeah, I think, I think we often feel like sometimes people are unreachable or unattainable and the goals that we set for ourselves sometimes seem, like, lofty and crazy. But keep working at it daily, and just keep pushing. Amazingly enough, you can reach those goals. It is, it is possible. And oftentimes the, quote-unquote, dreams or goals that we think we want when we get them, we realize that we wanted something completely different. We wanted something that was more attainable and, and ever-present, but we don’t realize how beautiful it is. Like, like, this time that you and I have, like, this is really beautiful. And when we wake up in the morning and are able to make the tea or coffee…that we have to just sit in that silence and look out the window and be present, we, we often forget how beautiful that is and what a gift that is. And it’s only when you go through really dark times of loss and of just like hopelessness that you realize that when you are able to have these quiet times or be with a good friend to share what a treasure that is.
P: Uh, well, thank you, Melanie. And thank you for all of your sharing and, and thank you for this treasure. I very much appreciate it.
M: Thanks. And I look forward to seeing where it all goes and, just, everybody out there, take care of yourselves and just keep making your art no matter what, like live it, breathe it, and just pass it on.
REFERENCES:
- Glenn Green Gallery: https://glenngreengalleries.com
- Santa Fe, New Mexico: https://www.santafe.org/santa-fe-re-opening/
- ‘Printmaking in the Sun’: https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/685248.Printmaking_in_the_Sun
- ‘The Lure of the Local: Sense of Place in a Multi Centered Society’: https://www.asu.edu/courses/aph294/total-readings/lippard%20–%20thelureofthelocal.pdf
- Lucy R. Lippard: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_R._Lippard
- University of Colorado: https://www.colorado.edu/
- Diné: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navajo
- Quaker: https://quaker.org/
- University of Arizona: https://www.arizona.edu/
- Arizona State University: https://www.asu.edu/
- Westtown School: https://www.westtown.edu/
- New Mexico Museum: https://nmartmuseum.org/
- SWAIA: https://swaia.org/
- Big Head Todd: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Head_Todd_and_the_Monsters
- Last Horizon: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Horizon_(1973_film)
- Big Head Todd: https://youtu.be/zJAsOGizkfU
- Boy: https://youtu.be/oP05fUP9xAo
- Mandalorian: https://youtu.be/aOC8E8z_ifw
- Jojo Rabbit: https://youtu.be/tL4McUzXfFI
- Sterlin Harjo: http://www.sterlinharjo.com/bio
- Boy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_(2010_film)’
- Hunt for the Wilderpeople: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunt_for_the_Wilderpeople