PROArtes México

Episode 1.9

Interview with Hoesy Corona, by Peter Hay on June 4th, 2020

Click here to listen to Episode 1.9

Reference list and Image Reference List at bottom of page

Peter (P): Our guest in this episode was born in Guanajuato, Mexico and is currently living and working between Baltimore Maryland and Tulsa Oklahoma. He is a multidisciplinary artist working in both visual and performance art creating uncategorized works that draw from his personal experiences as a queer Latinx immigrant in the United States. His work often confronts and delights viewers with some of the most pressing issues of our time. Recurring themes of race/class/gender, otherness, celebration, nature, isolation, and the climate crisis are all present throughout his work. His installations and colorful sculptural works have been on display at The Hirshhorn Museum and Sculpture Garden, Athens School of Fine Art, Transformer DC, The Baltimore Museum of Art, The Walters Art Museum, Gilcrease Museum, and The Reach at The Kennedy Center. Recent honors include a Tulsa Artist Fellowship, a Merriweather District Artist in Residence, a Halcyon Arts Lab Fellowship, a Ruby’s Artist Grant, a Maryland State Arts Council Individual Artist Award, and an Andy Warhol Foundation Grit Fund Grant. Hoesy Corona is also the co-founder and co-director of LabBodies, a nomadic artist-run arts organization that creates opportunities for queer and women-identifying performance artists to exhibit their work. He is also the cofounder and co-host of La Valentina Podcast, a queer-centric podcast celebrating queer latinx artist and their accomplices.  

Well, welcome, Hoesy, to the podcast. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Hoesy (H): Thank you for having me. 

P: I described your past a little bit, a little bit about what you do. But would you like to tell us a little about yourself? 

H: Sure! Yeah, um, well, my name is Hoesy Corona. I am a Mexican immigrant artist living in the United States. Um, I am currently in Tulsa, Oklahoma. But my homebase has been in Baltimore and Washington, D.C. Uh, in my practice I do, uh, my approach is multidisciplinary. So a lot of performance, installations, um, sculptures…

P: OK. Great.

H: …and wearables.

P: And you had mentioned, I saw in your bio that you call yourself an uncategorized artist. Could you maybe explain that just a little bit more?

H: Yeah, so you know what, that was not…

P: Uh-huh.

H: …I want to say a little over a year ago. I always had such a difficult time kind of like, you know, creating that category for the type of the work that I do. And I always felt this invisible almost pressure. I mean, I can’t say that somebody was pressuring me but I felt it. That it’s easier for an artist to maybe claim one discipline and stick to it. So that you’re, you know, “Oh, xyz artist does the red paintings with the blue dots,” You know? It’s so much easier than, “Oh my god, they do, uh, these things and they put on the wearables and I think it’s fashion. I don’t know if it’s costumes. I think it’s these weird things hanging.” You know what I mean? So, as I was thinking about that, I realized that “uncategorized” is such an uncomfortable place to be and, and, like, but also at the same time, an exciting and freeing kind of, um, descriptor…

P: Yeah!

H: …for your work. “Uncategorized?” What does that mean? Like, you know, don’t have an ex–

P: It does. It created some mystery for me. I was like, you know, is that…

H: Ok good.

P: …what exactly does that entail? You know? And I feel like you work, it is beautiful and colorful on the wall. And on a podium. Or on a mannequin. But, you know, that’s like just part of what the work is. That’s like…that’s like what, maybe 25% of what the work actually is, right? 

H: Mhm. Mhm. And yeah, and I think that like, right, that’s another thing, right? Like a, when I start, so my training, my background is in painting. So it’s very traditional. You know, I’ve had a long history of really taking kind of like, I knew I was going to be an artist very early on. So painting was something that was kind of romanticized for me and then, you know, historically, you’re like “Oh, the painter holds the highest position. Like even above the sculptor or anything other art form.” So it was very, it’s, you know, annoying. But, um, I quickly realized in college that I was hammering canvases together and making these assemblages and then like borderline performing within these painterly installations. And then I had to realize, ok there, I’m clearly…

P: Yeah

H: …breaking away from within that little square. You know what I mean?

P: Sure. So…

H: The little category that I was put in.

P: …that kind of leads me to a question. How exactly did you get into the arts? Yeah

H: How did I kind of enter the arts? Um, so you know what? It’s kind…I feel like every artist, well, 

no that’s a lie. Because I’ve met a bunch of artists who’re like “I discovered I wanted to be an artist in my mid-twenties.” For me, it was always something. I never even called it art but I was always involved in making stuff. And I’m sure a lot of, you know, listeners will, that are artists, will totally understand. Uh, you know, playing with mud even but making like strange little sculptures or always carrying around a sketchbook or computer paper. 

P: Uh-huh

H: So that was always just within me. But it wasn’t until about, um, I guess really, like in elementary school, people were like, “Damn, you’re like, you really do carry that folder everywhere. Like that’s what you do.” Or people would want to pay me five dollars to draw a rose for their crush or something. And then, you know, slowly, because I did have the privilege of going from, um, public schooling when I arrived to the United States. My parents had the foresight of just sticking me in a private school. And it was a Catholic private school. Um, I’m no longer of the faith but it was great. And, through that, I kind of got funneled into a private high school which happened…it was a magnet arts high school, but it…

P: Oh, wow.

H: …had an entire floor dedicated to the arts. So at around fourteen, fifteen, um, they had us take this, which is funny, like an art test. So I think we had to draw something. Like, you know, they gave us like two hours or something. And, and then you were accepted into or not. And then if you were, you were able to take all the art courses. Which for me, was amazing. Imagine this. Being in high school and having most of your classes be in the arts. And being able to climb the stairs to the sixth floor. It’s entirely arts and you’re able to have your headphones on. You’re able to do your work. Like spend as much time in the studio as you can. So for me, that was like…

P: Yeah

H: …again, very early like teen, you know, involved in this world. Of course I became…

P: Yeah

H: …the art club president. And that was fun. We, like, went every Wednesday night and did an extra, like, four hours of studio time. It was fun. And, so, I was always kind of, I was indoctrinated into this way of thinking through my mentors who were amazing, Patricia Frederick and Cathy Burnett, who really kind of instilled in me that, this was, a, a real career. And, you know, a promise that there was ways to make a living from it and that I should really honor this calling that I had. So that was really instrumental and, of course, because I idolize them, um, they had gone through the MFA program…

P: Sure

H: at MICA, the Maryland Institute College of Art in Baltimore. So of course, you know what I mean, that’s my mentor. I was like “I want to go to the best art school!” So I applied there…

P: Uh-huh

H: …and a bunch of other places but I chose MICA. So that brought me to Baltimore, uh, so then it was quote unquote official. Like, you know what I mean? I was now embarking on this…

P: Sure, sure.

H: …this idea of becoming an artist.

P: Um, well, I mean, I feel like that’s an incredible formation for you. Because, I mean, how many people get to be completely surrounded by like minds and like personalities? At that age and to have, have to have that formation in an artistic way…

H: Mhm.

P: That’s, that’s really rare and pretty incredible. And then…

H: Yeah! I feel very lucky. And also I do feel that it was also, like, it was just such a beautiful 

combination because, as in, again, a Mexican, young immigrant artist. You know, honestly, if it…

P: Mhm

H: ..weren’t for the arts and understanding that that was my calling, um, I probably would’ve…

P: Yeah, yeah.

H: …been funneled into some bullshit situation. 

P: Sure.

H: Do you know what I mean? Out, out in the workplace or whatever. So, just like even the fact that, you know, somebody with like modest means entering this art world…

P: Yes

H: …for me, that’s like…

P: Yeah

H: …a personal huge success. You know what I mean? Like, “Oh my gosh!”

P: Well, and that’s…

H: “I’m rubbing shoulders with these people.”

P: …that success hasn’t really ended. I mean, now you said you’re in Tulsa. You’re a, a, a part 

of the Tulsa Artist Fellowship. Is that correct?

H: Yes! So, um, I was actually lucky enough to have received my first official fellowship in D.C. in 2017, 2018. And that kind of, that was the Halcyon Arts Lab, and it, it kind of, it was a new chapter for me, where I was so used to the grants or, or, you know, specific project  commissions. Which is great but it always came with, again, that project at the end. 

P: OK

H: So people were giving you this amount of money, this is what we expect in return. And so I was very used to that but when I found fellowships, the key difference for me was that suddenly in a fellowship they weren’t investing in the project per se, they were investing in the actual artist. So like, “We want to support who you are because we already,” you know, “we, we, we realize that, yeah, you are capable of xyz. So we just want to invest in you, investing in you, we know, is investing in your practice.” So after that, uh, I applied to a million other fellowships and I happened to get into the Tulsa Artist Fellowship which is great. And I remember really keeping an eye for these types of opportunities…

P: Sure

H: …because they’re few and far between. I mean, there’s tons of opportunities but I specifically was looking for something that was truly going to support me in terms of like, um, you know, yes, there’s the stipend that, you know, you can live off of. 

P: Yeah.

H: But it also considers housing and studio space into this, um, this kind of like situation. And so the Tulsa Artist Fellowship did that and I came here in 2019. January. And so I spent one year here and after the year, uh, we were…

P: OK

H: …I guess invited to apply for a second year. So I went ahead and did that and I’m currently, um, in my second year. Which, you know, as you know…

P: Yeah

H: …has been marked by pandemic and all these things. So I feel like, we, you know, we started off with losing a little bit of studio time. But I am here through December. And what’s so amazing about this particular fellowship is that, after that second year, they’ve created, um, a set of grants…

P: Mhm

H: …just for, uh, alumni or fellows. So after the second year, you do have the chance to apply. Not for a fellowship but for a grant. 

P: Oh wow OK

H: That allows you to extend your stay for an additional year with in-, with increased stipends. And an actual budget for a community project. So it’s very robust. You know? In its offerings. And I feel very lucky. I think that these two and a half years of being in, in the fellowship setting have done so, such wonders for my practice. Uh, in terms of just really being able to fully immerse myself in my own practice and be able to, uh, you know, both meditate on where I’ve come from but also think about the future. You know? In a, in a very particular way that I think when I was having to deal with a full-time job and then negotiate all these arts opportunities.

P: Sure. Sure.

H: It was very difficult. There’s only so many hours…

P: Yeah I was actually in Tulsa when that first class, first Tulsa Artist Fellowship began. And it was like, you know…

H: Oh mhm.

P: …it was such an amazing project to bring in these artists like, some of the most incredible artists from all over the United States into Tulsa, Oklahoma. And I, I’m just so…

H: Mhm

P: …happy to hear that it’s continued and it’s like become such a strong thing. Because I think one of the real, uh, one of the real powers of that fellowship as well is that it is really connected to the community at large. Um, you know, in that like, you know, there’s opportunities that I think the University of Tulsa to engage student there, opportunities with the Philbrook Museum of Art. And you know… 

H: Mhm

P: …your, your studios are right downtown. 

H: Yeah

P: And….

H: Right, right downtown. And, you know, that offers both, you know, it’s a complicated situation because this happens to be the neighborhood or setting where…

P: Sure.

H: …Tulsa Race Massacre took place in 1921. Where, this is where Wall Street, Black Wall Street was erected. So it was one of the most successful, thriving, Black communities in the entire country.

P: Mhm

H: Really doing it up, really doing their thing. And, you know, these mobs of white people were essentially, it was, it was kind of like…

P: Yeah

H: …systemic plan to redevelop the neighborhood. So instead of, you know, figuring out how to do that or maybe even like, I don’t know, whatever other way of doing so. They chose to go ahead and, and literally burn down and destroy the, the properties and killing people– Black people– that were in the neighborhood. So that was, um, just two days ago was the 99th anniversary.

P: Yeah

H: So next year is the centennial. Of an entire…

P: Yeah

H: …community being wiped out through White Supremacy. 

P: Mhm

H: So that’s where we’re living. You know, that’s the kind of history that we, we’re contending with and responding to. So I think that, you know, I love that it’s connected to the community, the city, all those aspects. But there are, you know, real kind of…

P: Yeah

H: …like issues that need to be brought up and dealt with. And I think who better positioned than, well, first of all, the local community and then artists, right? That we’re able to dig through history, pull information out, and re-piece it together. Not as a, let’s say, a historical record but as a different…

P: Yeah

H: …way to contextualize, you know, our history. Which is fraught, uh, do we trust who has the pen of history? No. Because we know that it’s been a corrupt person.

P: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

H: Who happened to be in power. Or groups of people, of course, you know, I’m being silly. But groups of people. Then how do we kind of like reckon with these horrible histories and move forward? Uh, and then the other thing I was going to say, with this idea of the fellowship. So the two fellowships that I’ve done have been through private entities. So it’s individuals who amass a lot of wealth. And I think that even that puts a different perspective in my understanding of the art world. So, you know, in my first fellowship, I was a little bit green and naive. So I was like, “Ah, oh my god!” Like, “This is what I’ve been dreaming of. It’s great!” As it’s happening, I’m realizing, uh, the way I’m thinking about it, is thinking about court painters.

P: Oh, yeah, yeah

H: You know what I mean? If we think about Renaissance…

P: Sure

H: …or you know, like Medici. For me, it was very clarifying to kind of realize that there is no difference between what was happening then and what’s happening now. That, at the end of the day, you are functioning as a court painter, if you will. And that there’s limitations to that. So that’s eye-opening for me.

P: Yeah, yeah, no sure.

H: Does that make sense?

P: You know…

H: Court painter analogy?

P: …that person who’s functioning to make the things for the wealthy family. Like I think you mentioned the Medici’s and the collections that they had. You know, they, like indentured servitude…

H: Yeah

P: …essentially that they would put the greatest painters and sculptors in.

H: You know what I mean? And so, you know what, I had a history professor, in, art history professor, who was really amazing. And I remember one of the things that always stuck with me was he printed, um, a copy of one of the letters that Leonardo da Vinci wrote to a possible court, to become a court painter. And it was so fascinating that in this like page and a half, uh, you know, letter, he goes on and on about, “Listen, I am, I am good with sa-, even the community, I am able to build you nice weapons. I’m able to cook a good meal. I’m able to do this. I’m able to do that.” Literally expanding upon all these skills and then at the very end, just saying, “And I paint a decent painting and,” you know, “a fine sculpture if you need it.” So, essentially…

P: Yeah

H: …really building the case of, oh my god, you’re like pitching yourself to, exactly your point,  like not…I, I wouldn’t consider myself like an indentured servant here. But I’m thinking, what is that relationship between a benefactor that is like giving you money…

P: Sure

H: …presumably for no reason. There’s always a reason, you know what I mean? So I’m thinking like, here we’re revamping or trying to revamp, uh, Tulsa, right? It’s, it’s an industrial city, again, ravaged by tragedy and now, I think, that there’s a shift to try to kind of revitalize it. And historically, let’s not, you know, be, be foolish about this. Historically, you know, artists come into quote unquote, you know, um, decrepit or ravaged or slum-like neighborhoods and, you know, they find the setting they’re able to get their little studio space for cheap and they create a quote unquote vibrant, new neighborhood with murals and these things. And then developers step in, right?

P: Mhm. Yep

H: They’re like, “Look! It’s this a thriving community? Don’t you want to pull in here and move in?” So then it does change the makeup of the actual neighborhood. So I also want to be very clear that, like, there are a lot of things at play. Including nothing is ever free. So what is the transaction that’s being had? 

P: Yeah. I think that that’s…

H: And then how do you negotiate…

P: …being aware of…

H: …contributing to that? 

P: …uh, being aware of the cultural usage of art. Essentially art as art washing, you know? To like wash a, a space clean…

H: Oh, mhm

P: …of those that you don’t want and turn into a hip, creative community, is like, that is definitely something that has been used historically.

H: Uh-huh

P: I think it’s, you know, the fact that you’re aware of that. And also I think the fact that the kinds of artists that are being selected by the Tulsa Artist Fellowship, um, are, are definitely, I feel like, the, the kind of artists that are going to be very sensitive in the work that they do and the way that they work with the community. And be very aware of what’s happening around them. And, you know, you’re talking about the Greenwood Race Massacre and…

H: Mhm

P: …and how that, that was something that was essentially washed from history for a long time. You know? Like I grew up in Oklahoma and I didn’t learn about that in grade school. 

H: Mhm

P: You know? So, um…

H: Yeah. Yes I hear that so much. 

P: Exactly. 

H: From locals. They’re like, “I was thirty when I found out.”

P: And you know, I, I worked at Living Arts of Tulsa and Reconciliation Park is literally behind it. Like you walk out…

H: Mhm

P: …and walk through that park and…

H: Mhm

P: …you know, the, everything just like, and the context it was happening in the United States right now, like, the grounding that happened for me, um, when I worked in downtown Tulsa, around, uh, the racial history of the country is like, it really put it into perspective for me. Because, I mean, that was something that happened before Civil Rights era so it was easy to hide. You know? Um…

H: Mhm

P: It was like, sort of pushback against the fact that the African-American community there, that was forced essentially to live in those blocks because it was the part of town that Tulsa didn’t want to live in, essentially, at the time, had essentially…

H: Mhm

P: …massed wealth because they were going out into the community, working in the community,  but they weren’t allowed to spend money there.

H: Yeah

P: So they would bring all that money back and spend it in their own community which allowed for them to create, like you’re talking about, this, the Black Wall Street. And then, you know…

H: Mhm

P: …the resentment that came in the early ‘20s with, you know, as we know, as a huge recession time period and then the resentment of that community still being ok. Or like thriving through that time period. And like that like, “Wait, those…”

H: Mhm

P: …”The black people cannot be doing better than us.” Like that’s a real instigator, you know? And it still is. Like we’re watching that right now. So, and it’s, you know, nobody’s pushing to be doing better, ju-, like pushing for equality and equity. You know? 

H: Yeah. And you know what? I just found out, which I did not know, that it’s kind of like assumed that, you know, the neighborhood, Black Wall Street, was raised down and then that was the end of it. But apparently, and I, you know, this is very lite information that I received, so I need to like dig deeper, but apparently, uh, you know, folks were able to rebuild and they were, they did, they did so on their own. And so they did thrive for a little bit longer but then, uh, you know, because again, the commu-…

P: Yeah

H: …the white community, what they really wanted was the land and the property. But…

P: Sure

H: ….folks were not willing to sell. They were like, “No.” Like, “This is my property, I’m keeping it.” So they thrived for a little bit longer…

P: Uh-huh, yeah

H: …but then this highway…

P: Yeah

H: …you’ll remember it, that cuts right through downtown. That was like, I, I still can’t remember the date, but I want to say like ten years later, that’s how they truly got rid of the community after they rebuilt. They were like, “And now we are putting you out…”

P: Mhm

H: … “because, oh, this essential highway situation needs to come through here.” So literally disrupting the neighborhood…

P: Mhm, yeah, yeah

H: …with this massive construction, you know? So like the, the violence and, on top of violence. 

So like not only did you already murder, kill, destroy…

P: Yeah

H: …now you’re literally physically doing the same thing again. So it’s very dense here, right? I’m like, and even when you said that when you worked at Living Arts…

P: Sure

H: …and the park was right behind you, uh, the memorial park, even that stuff was so difficult for me a year ago when I was like but where am I? How do I situate myself? Like how do I know what part of the town I’m walking on?

P: It’s…yeah.

H: Because it’s not labeled. It’s still hush-hush. You know? Like…

P: Mhm. That was a whole controversy. Yeah.

H: Even with the renaming. Like this, this whole time, it was…

P: Yeah

H: Yeah, it was called the riots, right? The Tulsa Race Riots.

P: Yeah

H: And it’s like, uh, that makes the white people look good. Mhm. So the parallels to what our current conversation with the, the protests regarding the murder of George Floyd are, they’re not new. 

P: Sure. Yeah.

H: They’ve just become visible to some people. And obviously _______  at the same time

P: Um, yeah no that’s a very intense and deep history. And I, you know, all of that said, I do, I do love Tulsa. I love, I mean, I love working in the Greenwood District…

H: Yeah!

P: And I love, you know, it’s a, it is a really quirky downtown and, you know, the breweries and, you know, that history does add to, you know, I think it does add to the way that the people of Tulsa are. You know? And it, people are, are becoming more and more aware of that. And I feel like, you know, there’s going to be some really interesting… I think the next couple months are going to be very interesting. Just…

H: Very interesting and I will say, something that I’m shocked still though however. That even this neighborhood…

P: Yeah

H: Greenwood’s district…

P: Yeah

H: …is still very white. So for like all the conversations we’re having, all those establishments you just described…

P: Yeah

H: They’re, they’re mostly owned by white people or they are white people. So like I think there is, there, we’re, the conversation is still very green. For this community. Where I think that acknowledging was a big deal. That, what? Took a hundred years? Well, that’s not where it ends. And, and maybe people are like, “Oh, ok we’ve done our thing.”

P: Mhm

H: No, no, no. Like how are you redistributing that wealth? How are you really kind of like helping Black communities?

P: Yeah

H: And indigenous communities specifically here in Oklahoma.

P: I mean that’s a whole other thing too, you know?

H: _____ It’s a ride You know?

P: Because the history of the change of hands of land and the forced removal of Natives to that place. And that, you know, the council, the Council Oak downtown, is the, you know, that was the center of Talasi which was the Creek settlement, you know? And it’s like, yeah…

H: Mhm

P: …the history of Tulsa is, is beautiful and painful and violent. Um, all at the same time.

H: And to your point, I do always do correct myself when I’m engaging with friends or just conv-, you know, having conversations with other people. Because I think it’s easy to demonize and “Ah, the people of Tulsa!” But, you do have to stop and remember…

P: Yeah

H: …no, no, no, that’s like the perceived history…

P: Yeah

H: …because it’s actually full of amazing, beautiful people. You know? It’s like, the, we have 36, 37 Native American tribes within, you know, Oklahoma. And so like there are amazing elements about Tulsa. 

P: Yeah

H: I just think that it’s been marred by the way it’s been handled.

P: Sure.

H: And the history or, you know, dealt with. 

P: And I think going back to the, the topic of discussion and progress is that yeah you’re right. Like this, this discussion is not ending here. But I think that, you know, it’s actually just starting, you know? Like actually have conversation. Because conversation requires listening.

H: Yeah

P: And learning. And I feel like the listening has…

H: Very much. 

P: …not always been there, you know? It’s been very defensive and dismissive and it’s, I think that hopefully from this point, we start to have some more listening and learning. Um, and collective progress. 

H: Yeah. Because, you know, it really goes back to like the, I mean…

P: Yeah

H: …there are multiple Americas but again, the two Americas, right? Like, the, the history or the language of white America and how, so, you know, even the current presidential situation, uh, with the “Make America Great-”, well that is the history of the white section, right? Like, “Oh, we want to go back to when it was easy and we had all these slaves and everything was great for us.” Well, that’s not what we want, on the other side. You know what I mean? So like this divide I think is still very, uh, and then again, you think about this country being such a baby, in the scheme of things. That, you know, I think about often like, uh, when people say, you know…

P: Yeah

H: …slavery was only two and half grandmothers away from this point in time. So kind of like really centering us ourselves in, in…

P: Mhm

H: …this notion that of like that like even the historical timeline, I think that we love as Americans…

P: Yeah

H: …to think of history as that thing that happens so long ago but in reality, it’s like, listen,in the history book our current moment will be the next chapter or the next page…

P: Yes.

H: …after slavery. Like the book page will be turned and there we are.  You know what I mean though?

P: No…

H: It is not trillion of years ago.

P: There’s still a living, survivor…

H: This is very recent history. 

P: …of the Tulsa Race Massacre in Tulsa. So, and you can read her, her accounts of the…

H: Yeah

P: …of the days. So, I mean, it’s, it’s that recent that there’s still like living descendents of that particular event. 

H: Yeah and so many, and this is, you know, the listeners out there, don’t worry. 

P: Yeah, well you…

H: This is, totally ties into my work.

P: …have a whole piece that is titled White Construction. Or a whole series of pieces… So, you know? It is…

H: Yeah. You know kind of  like, yeah, how we construct our realities. But just a straight out my window, Brady Street, which was renamed, uh…

P: Mhm

H: …Is right on where the Brady Theatre is. Brady, this person they’re commemorating was a Ku Klux Klan member and leader. You know? So like, again, how is, how are we remembering history? Who is being remembered? Like what are the, you know, to shift this narrative…

P: Yes

H: …involves a lot. Literally physically changing the land…

P: Yeah.

H: …also and like the make-up of communities

P: And like that, that whole, there was a whole debacle about renaming that street from Brady to M.B. Brady which was, well, they didn’t want to change the Brady so they added M.B. which was some Civil War photographer that had nothing to do with Oklahoma. To now…

H: Exactly.

P: Then, you know, they called it Reconciliation Way but then they, they didn’t take down the M.B…. 

H: Reconciliation

P: …Brady signs. They just put the reconciliation above it. And it was like, “Wait, you’re not actually renaming it.” You know? It’s like…

H: Yeah. But yeah and so that’s a type of kind of a resistance to it. You know what I mean? It’s like, “Oh.” 

P: Yeah

H: Like, “we will go through the motions.” But do you believe it? Do you understand why this is? And I think that’s so tied to our current conversation. Where people are like, “Oh, the destruction of property! No! I draw the line at violence!” Bitch, what we’re talking about…

P: Talking about the destruction of life.

H: …is the murder of a Black man again. During a pandemic. So like, context and perspective. You know? It’s like, can we recenter…

P: Yeah

H: …the dialogue? Like, you are not the victim here.

P: Yeah

H: So stop with those bullshit white tears. Which is such an important conversation to have. If…

P: Exactly.

H: …we want to break through….

P: And I’m really grateful to have this part of the interview because I feel like we cannot address, we cannot have this interview without addressing these current situations. The current situation and then, you know, I cannot express enough of how heartbreaking all of this has been to watch. And how, um…

H: Yeah

P: My heart goes out for all of those out in the streets and for the organizations who have spent not just these past years, but a hundred years fighting for civil rights in the United States. 

H: Uh-huh. 

P: And, you know, Black lives matter. 

H: Black lives matter. And we do need to, I think this conversation about the violent policing industrial complex that we take for as granted almost as normal, if you will. LIke this is, it’s an essential part of who we are. Ah, is it though? Because, I mean, I’m going with this conversation and the formation of police force was as slave catchers. So, do we really need them? Do we really want that ki-? So I think that it’s, it’s reenvisioning, reimagining a brand new world that a lot of us may be thinking, “That’s not possible.” But it is. And, you know, as artist, I think that, or, you know, anybody that works with artists, we know that that picture, that vision you have in your brain can be, be manifested into reality with just a few actions. You know what I mean? So, I think that that possibility is, you know, we’re here. I see it. I’m hopeful. Um, I think that, like you were saying, echoing those feelings of just like being heartbroken and feeling all these emotions. And then having to also step back and realize, as a non-Black person, even if I am a person of color, as a non-Black person, this is not the time to get weak. You know? And be like, “Oh my god, I’m feeling emoti-, like I’m drained…” No, no, no, no. 

P: Yeah

H: This is not that moment. You know what I mean? You better hold it together. Like this is not, this is not about you. This is, like, if you’re feeling that way, can you have some compassion and empathy and imagine what’s going on through the minds and bodies of people who are truly affected…

P: Yeah.

H: AKA our Black community. You know what I mean? So it’s very, multiple, multiple layers. Um, but yeah, I totally am here for the protesters and I think change is possible…

P: And just because you are there in Tulsa, I’m curious to know, uh, what your experience with these past few days has been. 

H: So you know what? It was, it is interesting because there were a couple protests here as well. As it’s been happening nation-wide. Um, and it, for the first time, you know whenever these kinds of, uh, uh, communal get-tog-, or protests happen, I do join in as much as possible. Here, it was the first time I chose not to. Because it’s a different context. I think, again, coming from Baltimore, we had an uprising in 2015 in response to the killing of Freddie Gray in the hands of police. So, you know, same thing was happening nation-wide. Coverage…

P: Yeah

H: “Oh my god, look at those thugs.” We’re labelled by again, putting, demonizing the people that were seeking justice and change. So I noticed that happening again and with this go-around. But locally, now that I’m in Tulsa, it is a different context. You know? Like if I’m going to the store and I happen to jump on a ride-share, um, the conversations that are happe-, that I have are very telling with like white men often. And, you know, a lot about, for instance, um, right before the pandemic I was sending my mother some money and because, you now, Latinos are using Wal-mart because that’s their preferred way of s-, whatever. So I went there and the ride-share person is like, white man, asks me, “Why didn’t you pay the extra dollar to go to the Wal-mart up the road? Because, you know, this one is so, you know…” And I had to imply and gather from what he was saying. That he was refer-, referring to the fact that this is a predominantly Black and Latino…

P: Holy…

H: …um, you know, Wal-mart. But that’s where the communities go. And so he, and his next comment was, “whenever I go to this one, I make sure that I open carry. Do you know what I mean?” And so for me, it flashes backs these like, or I get flashes…

P: Yeah

H: …of the, the killing.

P: Yeah

H: The mass shooting that happened in Texas, you know? At the Wal-mart. So I’m like, these, it’s a different context here and guns are, are the, almost like the norm on both sides. And you’re like, “just because I’m, you’re protesting with us, I don’t, you’re also carrying a gun.” Like it just, it creeps me out. 

P: Mhm

H: I did not feel comfortable enough to do so. And, on top of that, I am a permanent resident here. And I feel like it’s different…

P: OK

H: …when you’re not a citizen. 

P: OK

H: So I’m like, “let me not be foolish about this…”

P: Interesting. And I, you know, I also, like we are still in the middle of a pandemic as well. So, uh, it is so wild. So I, I just, you know…

H: So wild.

P: …I love all of those out protesting, um, the right things, in the right places for the right reasons. But, I sure hope that they take care of their health and safety in that regard. 

H: Yeah. And I have been seeing…

P: Yeah

H: …a lot of folks wearing masks right? But again, it’s that proximity. I know that it was reported that three people at the Tulsa protests…

P: Oh OK

H: …um, did…

P: Yeah

H: …test positive. I was like, “Holy shit.” 

P: Yep.

H: But you know, and I guess just to kind of carry on to the artwork I guess, but I will say, even within that conversation, let’s also reframe it and say, um, how even during a pandemic, White Supremacists thinking was still…

P: Yep.

H: …able to kill a Black man. Or multiple. You know what I mean? So it’s like, holy cow, not even a pandemic could stop racism and this deep embedded hatred…

P: Yeah

H: …that Americans have within us and we just have to deal with that knowledge.

P: Well, thank you, thank you for sharing about your experience with, with Tulsa and at large, you know, your thoughts on this. Because it does tie into your work. Um, so I’m curious, um…

H: Very much.

P: …can you tell us a little bit more about, um, what you do make. 

H: Yeah, so like I mentioned earlier, my training was in painting and so ever since then, um, it, you know…

P: Mhm

H: …I kind of branched out and started with, uh, performance. So just felt very natural. I’ve always been very performative in nature. Um, I think it stems from having two family members who are deaf and mute. So, just being able to, um, conversate or engage with family members, it was a very performative situation. A lot of using your hands, which, you know, Mexicanos already do anyway. But, uh, using your hands a lot and…so anyway, performance seemed very, it was a nice, easy transition. Um, and then I started creating these overwhelming floral, uh, wearable sculptures that I would make and then embody for performances. And so that was kind of like when I started realizing this is…

P: Mhm

H: …the true work that I’m willing to stand behind. So this body of work is titled “The Nobodies.” And “The Nobodies” was actually inspired by reading…

P: Yeah

H: …Octavio Paz. The Labyrinth of Solitude. And then, in one point, in…So The Labyrinth of Solitude is really thinking about almost like the consciousness of like the American-Mexican, or the American consciousness and the Mexican consciousness. And thinking almost like these sister siblings, you know, neighboring, um, countries. But at one point, he mentions los nadie, the nobodies. And like who are the nobodies? And they’re faceless. And they’re this. And they’re that. And for me, it really kind of stuck with me in terms of like having, tying it to an immigrant experience and having to kind of like, like feel so visible but invisible at the same time. Wherever you go. Or, for instance, if I put it this way, like everybody wants the tacos. Everybody wants the, uh, you know, the, the, the culture and the food, the music. But nobody wants the people who come with it. 

P: Yeah

H: Well, you know what I’m saying. The white people don’t. So, that was kind of like the beginning of that series. And then with that series, after my painting history, I realized that, for this new body of-, bodies of work, I was going to be working in series. So “The Nobodies” started in 2009 and…

P: OK

H: …it’s still active now. So, you know, over ten years now. And, yeah. And so that’s one body of work. Uh, and performance. But then there’s other bodies of work. For instance, “The Scapegoats,” uh, is more sculptural series. Where I’m thinking about the archetype of the scapegoat.

P: Mhm

H: And then a different body of work is “The White Constructions” we mentioned earlier. Where, again, it’s more of a visual installation, uh, series that deconstructs this notion, uh, of the arbitrary construction of race in the U.S. Uh, and there’s two more bodies of work so in the past ten years…

P: OK

H: …five bodies of work is what I’m really kind of standing by. 

P: And, and going back to “The Scapegoats,”…

H: Mhm

P: …so I saw a version of that, uh, that was you actually had live models inside of the, kind of, things you had built. And is that the, is that your preferred way to show that work?

H: So, ok, and so with the five bodies of work, the, the two that are quote unquote visual, sometimes do have some elements of performance. But can also mostly stand alone as quote unquote…Hm. Interesting. But not live artwork…

P: OK

H: …are “The Scapegoats,” which again are sculptural in nature, and “The White Constructions.” But, so, most of those can stand alone by themselves. But I have experimented with doing performances within both bodies of work. So the, the, the work that you’re describing, um, I hired a performer and then I myself was performing as the scapegoat. And it was an ongoing, um, installation. So it was a beautiful installation and then activated by the performers for the 

opening and the closing. So that was beautiful. I liked it. Uh, but, but I’m, you know, I realize that 

it’s, it’s…

P: OK

H: …heavier towards the, it’s a sculptural…

P: And I also saw that you have a, kind of an alter-ego for performance art. Is that something you still do? I am talking about Dr. H. Corona.

H: Are you talking about Dr. H. Corona? Ah, OK. Yes. Dr. H.– So something that I forgot to mention when I introduced myself is…

P: Uh-huh

H: …I have a background as an arts organizer. So that’s something that, uh, really came hand-in-hand after I, uh, left painting, if you will. I still paint. No, after I left painting, because suddenly it wasn’t about being isolated and alone in the studio. Uh, doing performance was a very col-, uh, collective, um, endeavor. So, you know, whether or not others were participating in my performance, we had to work together…

P: Yeah

H: …to organize the event or the night of performances. You know? So like, even that started to already shift the way, um, yeah, I engaged with, with thinking about how to make art. Um, so that I spent doing with friends in a warehouse space…

P: OK

H: …for about five years. And then that’s when Dr. H. Corona comes in. I met my collaborator, Ada Pinkston, who is absolutely amazing. Multidisciplinary artist, uh, from New York. Also in Baltimore at the moment. And we went to an artist talk by Coco Fusco, who is one of my favorite artists, in Baltimore. And, you know, she did a presentation on her performance work and then show an excerpt of a performance. And we were taken, we both idolized her. But we were taken aback by how, the full, uh, auditorium, when the Q and A happened, everybody was just going on about questions that were not relating to…

P: Mhm

H: …the performance where she had just literally presented on. So we went home, we had a beer. We were like, we went actually to our friend’s house. We had a beer. And we just had this whole conversation about, “Interesting. What does that mean? Oh my god, maybe there’s not a particular framework in place for both of our communities to engage with performance art.” 

P: Right.

H: Not that we don’t know that performance art exists. But more like, “How do you engage with that person like pretending to vomit in the corner? That’s weird. I don’t know how to talk about it so I’m not going to talk about it.” So we created, um, six months worth of planning, or…

P: Oh yeah

H: …programming. Right there, in the living room. Drinking a beer. And then right there and then, we made a pact. We were like, “OK, are you willing to commit for five years, that no matter what, we will continue doing xyz to accomplish this mission?” So we both committed and we said, “Yep. Five years.” And so we stayed true to that so for five years we produced monthly events that started off as, uh, open, uh, open, uh, what did we call it? Open stage. So we would invite artists, we would not even curate like what works they were doing. We just wanted to get a sense for the, uh, performance pulse in, in the art community. And people would arrive. So we would be like, “OK, those who want to perform, arrive at 8 pm. And we’ll start at nine.” You know, 7:50, like ten people would show up and you’re like, “Oh my god!” There’s a, there’s a need for this, you know? So, through that, um, you know, we immediately develop our alter-egos. So Dr. H. Corona became this type of doctor that wore…And you know, almost very cliche now if you look at a lot of performance artists, I feel like everybody goes through their doctor phase. But we went through, like, put on this white coat. Um, both of us. So I’m Dr. H Corona, she’s Dr. A. Pinkston. And then we would very matter-of-fact use the language that museums were using. So…

P: Sure

H: …not that we would copy it. But we would copy the structure. To, to kind of give us validity and credibility to the artists we were working with. So, again, that’s where the doctors came into play. That, we ourselves didn’t have to feel like kind of self-conscious about it. No, no, no. We are doctors, as a matter of fact. So we are delivering these matter-of-fact, you know, answers to you people. And it was really fun in terms of establishing that, um…I don’t think that we carried it through as strongly as we wanted to because, you know, then issues started to emerge. For instance, people, this is complicated conversation. But, we’re organizers but we’re also artists. So in the eyes of others, it’s a complicated situation. So we started getting invitations as LabBodies, that’s our organization. But they were asking for the two of us. So we’re like, “Wait, I don’t think you understand.” Like, we’re creating a platform for other artists. And, so that started kind of like throwing off Dr. H, Dr. A Pinkston because suddenly, for instance, the Walters Art Museum, in Baltimore, invited Labbodies, but again they were wanting specifically the two of us. 

P: Yeah

H: To be the ones that showed. See what I mean? So we were like, “Wait a minute.”

P: Yeah

H: “So is that Dr. H or…”

P: Yeah or is it both? Like is it…

H: So…

P: …personas, you know?

H: Exactly. So, but for us, because we were in that mindset of we made this commitment for five years. We always decided that, kind of like, any kind of, um, well, visibility yes but also this kind of, um…

P: Mhm

H: …establishing our little organization as legit was helpful. You know? So in those five years, we were, we brought in over $130,000. Most of it dispersed back into our artist community. Which, even though it’s over five years, is not that much money, for us that was huge. Like we were literally putting money in the hands of artists. You know? That, uh, were not, didn’t have as many opportunities to show their work because they were working…

P: Yeah, yeah

H: …on conventional stuff. You know? 

P: Um, no it was great!

H: So that was a long ass…

P: That’s a lot of information. 

H: …but it’s complicated

P: It’s a lot of information. 

H: It’s so, well I’ve done so much stuff that I’m like, “Oh my god. Do we have another like six hours?

P: Maybe we’ll have to have like a part two in the future. 

H: You know what? 

P: Um, well, I’m curious because, you know, like you bring up that sort of, that vocabulary of museums. And there was a book that came out, um, not too long ago that, uh, is called A Potential History: Unlearning Imperialism. And, um, I’m compl-, I’m drawing a complete blank on the author’s name. I’ll have to, I’ll put that in, I’ll put that in the, the links in, in the website for sure. But, the, uh…

H: Sure.

P: …It talks about how museums are essentially a function of imperialism. Like they came out of the need for a place to put the looted goods. You know? 

H: That word, looted. Mhm.

P: Exactly. So, I’m, I’m just curious how like, you know, how you sort of interacted with 

institutions along those lines because, you know…

H: Museums are so f-ing annoying. Let’s just put it out there. I love institutions. I am never turning down an institution. I think that it’s important to engage with them because with all their problems, I still know that there’s, you know, good people that I trust within those walls. Well, not everywhere. But a lot of the places do have them. And it’s actually, it’s a fight for them even within those walls. Right? So like they do, there’s people within there working… 

P: Yes

H: …fighting for the same fights that we’re fighting for. So it’s nice to be able to connect and kind of like aid that, you know, goal. So I still commit to working with those institutions but I think that, um, they co-, like you said… So establishing the fact that a lot of museums, most museums, all museums are a collection of most likely, an individual’s collection, and whether they looted that stuff or they acquired their wealth through, you know, strange maybe problematic means, it’s still, you know, a nasty little world. 

P: Yeah

H: Where you’re like…

P: Yeah

H: “How are you paying for all of this stuff?” So I think that those spaces are just, they’re problematic. I think that even currently, we all know that most museums are populated by white men. So already, from the get-go, it’s like, “Oh right, so then throw out museums.” Right? They’re not actually a reflection of…

P: Yeah

H: …anything. So, I mean they are. You know, I’m…a lot of general things here. But, so there are problems with the museums. And I think that, um, engaging with those dialogues. Again, artists thrive doing that. You know what I mean? It’s just figuring out a way to, um, engage with these museum professionals because I think that, you know, you once in a while do get an amazing person who is right there with you…

P: Mhm

H: …in your concerns in the way that you approach artmaking. But, there are also the opposite. So there’s all those other people that are just upkeeping the history of museums.

P: Yeah

H: That don’t like push back. You know? Even just a few years ago when like artists are like, “Uh, where are the Latinx artists?”

P: Yeah

H: Or, “Where are the Black artists?” Like people don’t want to be confronted with that because of the implications that it brings. If you don’t have Black and Latino or Brown artists in your collection, well what does that make you? Like you know? It’s a, it’s a difficult conversation but I think it’s an important one to have. And we are pushing at it. And I do see changes happening. We see it right now with Black artists in museums. Clearly not any, not close enough to making it normal or leveled out. But you do, have seen in the past few years this increase in, in Black artists representation. And across museums or exhibitions, uh, with themes and concerns that are, are, you know, pertinent to these communities. But, I, as a Latinx artist right now, as a Mexican artist, I realize that we are not, like, we don’t have…

P: Yeah

H: …the representation yet either. And it’s, it’s still small for Black artists, and I’m like, “Well, you know, we need to get on this.” Because I don’t see, I think that, you know, there’s a lot of work to be done. I don’t see us having this kind of same momentum yet as like Mexicans in America or Latinos in America, the United States specifically. But I think that it’s kind of like our next…

P: Sure.

H: …hurdle. Right? How do we get together to push back on these institutions and force them to, to recognize us? I mean, you’ll remember that, uh, oh my god I’m blanking now. The feminist art show. What was it called? In, it traveled across the country. It was Latin American women, 1960 to something…Do you know what I’m talking about?

P: Oh…Yeah

H: But even just this retro-, or this like, um, exhibit highlighting all these Latin American women from…

P: Sure

H: …the sixties, seventies I think, uh, was so shocking, right? Because people were like, “Wait a minute, this is amazing work.”

P: Yeah

H: Like, “How come I don’t know about it?” And it’s like…

P: Exactly

H: …well, yeah, that’s the issue. Like, if the museum is not comprehensive especially…

P: For a long time

H: …when it’s been on the hands of white men.

P: Yeah, forever. 

H: Yeah

P: So I think, yeah, no, I agree.

H: Mhm

P: It’s like a really, I mean, I work with museums and I’ve worked for museums in the past. And I, you know, I do, like, but I just feel like acknowledging that history is incredibly…you know. Um, and I was just curious about your experience that is, as somebody that’s worked with museums quite a bit in your history. And, um, and yeah. 

H: Well, let me tell you this. It’s been very, like you have to be very, like, you have to feel out…

P: Uh-huh

H: …what you’re dealing with. How about that? Like you need to figure out who brought you in. That’s your first…

P: Ah, OK

H: …kind of point of contact, right? So establishing a good communication with them so that you’re both on the same page. Whenever I work with institutions or organizations, I realize that these people that, that are your immediate, uh, interface, they’re, if you, if they’re doing it right, they are on your side, right? So like you want to provide them enough information and resources so that when they are making the case, uh, for you, even some museums are like, “No, you can’t have any liquids.” Well, let’s say you wanted a liquid. Well, that’s your first point of contact. Like…

P: Sure, right.

H: …they’re going to make the case for you. You know what I mean? So like establishing your, your connections, your people within the institution. And the other thing I would say is like, because of these conversations that we’re having, um, I think that just, you know, I, you know, I, I actually hate saying that. Because I was going to say, like, um, the politics of like being polite and whatnot. But something that I’ve learned is, like, you’re nice to everybody across the board whether it’s the receptionist, the security guard, a curator, the director. Like you have to kind of like respect all these people and be consciously kind. Because, first of all, it just works better. Second of all, a lot of the times it is the person in the office that has, that can present your work to that…

P: Yeah

H: …like if you’re having a board meeting. And the person who’s doing the printing is actually the secretary that you treated like shit, they, you know what I mean? They may not do the best little, uh, job at putting together your presentation in a way that makes it…

P: Yeah

H: …impactful and hand it out.

P: Exactly

H: Even little things like that, you know? Like it’s a collaboration. Uh, but when, when there has been, um, issues with museums settings like that, um, you feel, it’s horrible, right? Because you’re like, “Oh my god I literally feel like I’m being gagged right now.” Or you, you know where you kind of have to like, like you realize what boundaries…

P: Sure

H: …you can push with the current administration. 

P: Sure. And, um, I’m going to segue from that into asking you…

H: Yes

P: …I mean, because you make, uh, kind of a variety of different kinds of work. But you’re thematically very tied in together. So I’m just curious to know like why, um, how do you determine what is important for you to make or pursue? 

H: Good question. So, I think within, OK, so OK. When I think about these ten years, just this January, I kind of had my mark for the ten years from 2010 to 2020. Which, I’m like, the years I’m willing to claim.

P: Mhm

H: So, really the, now in J-, since January what I’ve been doing is kind of like looking back at those ten years with new eyes. And realizing that for, so that’s what I’ll be talking about right now. But those bodies of work, it was very much about, um, you know, centering in on the most difficult ways that I was not being held by the world or by the country or by my city. And realizing that there is something there. Like if you’re feeling uncomfortable about this or you feel like there’s something missing in the ecosystem, there’s probably truth to that. So like when I finally kind of like honed in on that or when I was able to like, you know, do a quick performance that denounced White Supremacy in 2011 it was very, those were the kinds of like moments that, that really start to, to change my thinking and my approach to artmaking. Where actually the easy thing to do is to paint the flower or the easy thing to do is to paint like something that’s accessible and colorful and abstract. And I had to realize that, uh, there was also an importance to the heavier conversations that were not being had because there was no frameworks for them.

P: Mhm

H: So for me, it always starts with like, “Well, what am I feeling strongly about? How can I expand upon this?” And then once I do that soul searching, um, and a lot of the times it happened to, through going to residencies. Because early on, I had a full-time job. I had put myself through college and then afterwards, I was a full-time florist. 

P: Oh wow

H: So, floral arrangements. So you see connections…

P: Yeah, yeah, sure

H: …to my materiality. But, um, but really kind of like, you know, figuring out what those concerns were, honing them in. Going to a little residency. Spending like a week or two secluded in nature or something. 

P: Mhm

H: And then going through all the different, you know, just, um, vetting this idea. So “White Constructions. Oh my god, is it worth it?” Well, yeah, it’s a current problem in the United States. It’s so prevalent and needs to be talked about. So like once I do all the check-offs, um, and I’m secure on it, that’s it. Like I don’t necessarily revisit too much in terms of like, “Oh my god, is this good art? Oh is this bad?” No. Like “The Nobodies” I, you know, had established the reasoning behind it and why. That’s why I was able to, to keep developing over ten years you know?

P: Sure

H: Similarly, with “The White Constructions.” Once I was set on it, uh, at the end of 2015 beginning of 2017, 2016, um, that was it. So like whenever, you now, I’m not going to waste sleep or thinking about, “But is this good art? Oh my god, should I’ve done something differently?” No, no, no. I already, I did that part. And I already made the show. 

P: Yeah, it’s already out there and…

H: Exactly.

P: I mean, there’s a question that, um, I ask some people and it’s about criticism. But it sounds like your relationship with criticism is quite healthy. 

H: Well, yeah. Criticism? Like what do you mean? Criticism like, like, uh, like bad review or criticism about the actual art? 

P: I guess, I guess in general, I mean, because there are multiple layers to criticism. You know? There’s like, you know, if you’ve gone to like a traditional art school setting then like criticism is such a humongous part of your…

H: Those grades! I saw people crying! 

P: Yeah. But then once you get out, you’re like, “Man, I miss that criticism.” And then until…

H: Oh yes.

P: And then, that feedback from other people. But then you get to a certain level where like, all, 

everybody just picks your stuff apart. You know? So I…

H: Yeah

P: …curious to know if like, you know, how you maybe cope with criticism…

H: So…

P: …through that.

H: …yeah, I will say that the kind of like, um, like mass criticism I think also comes with being wildly known. I definitely have to humble myself and know that I’m like I’m still emerging. I’m still trying to like establish myself out there. And even let people know that I’m, I’m out here existing, making this work. So I don’t think that I had to deal with that kind of like criticism at large. But in terms of like, of, um, dealing with, you know, critical conversations when it comes to you work…You have, you bring up such a good point. Because I think, uh, when we’re in school, if we go through school, to be an artist, not everybody does that.

P: Mhm

H: Totally fine. Um, you know, we maybe take it for granted but luckily for me, after schooling, I actually lived in a warehouse in Baltimore. 

P: Mhm

H: Which, with six friends, so it was tons of us but we also had tons of space. And so I realized right early on that that was actually the most amazing thing that happened to me after college because that sense of community stayed. So it was actually very helpful because those conversations still happen but now it was your friends that were also being critical. And you understood each other enough to maybe not take it personally. Again, when you are engaged…

P: Sure

H: …in the conversation about your work. Yeah, because you’re just expanding upon what you’re putting on the table. So it’s like, if you put that on the table it’s, it’s, it’s, you know, it’s fine to talk about. And you might not like what you hear. But for me that was very helpful and I think that there’s some much knowledge shared between artists. Um, but again, seeking out that specific community to, to get specific criticism. Like no, no, no. I want your critics. I love that. And I think that that is a part of every artist’s journey and, um, some of us more successful than others, you know? Some people may be like, maybe they’re so thirsty for somebody to come and talk about their work, you know? 

P: Mhm

H: But, nobody will do so unless they engage in that. So it’s like, “OK, what kind of…?” Because criticism is very healthy. I think that that’s how we’re, we need hard questions thrown at us. And I think that a part of the artist’s job is to be able to have answers to what it you’re talking about. Because at the end of the day, you are the expert in your field or your, or your, your body of work. Like, nobody knows it better than you do so like, “What do you mean you don’t have an answer?” You know what I mean?

P: Yeah! Well that’s one of the beautiful things about art is you get to create your own answers.

H: Yeah!

P: But the, you know, a lot of times your own answers are the questions. So it’s…

H: Exactly

P: …there’s not a wrong version of that necessarily. 

H: Actually I love that you said that. Because I do think, yeah, I think that like I like artists that don’t answer the thing for you, you know what I mean? They’re just like, “Oh no, I just made it 

more difficult.”

P: Yeah

H: I like that. It’s like, “Mhm, art is not here to solve the thing for you.” 

P: Nope. It’s, it’s to, uh, make you think about it in a more deeper way, I feel, you know? 

H: Yeah. Read every…

P: And, and of course it depends on the artist and their intentions but you know, I think…

H: True, true, true. You’re right. 

P: …that I do personally feel that way. Um, well, we’re getting kind of towards the end of our time for the interview and I have a few questions that are a little bit kind of quicker, short answer. Just because we are….

H: It’s funny because we started with the hardest ones.

P: Yeah! 

H: No! No!

P: Like we’ll have another hour of interview now. Um, but I, you know, we’re still kind of in lockdown situation. Um, especially here in Mexico City. We’re still very much in the lockdown situation. So, I’m, I’m just curious, um, who are some of your greatest artistic influences? 

H: Oh, another question. OK, so, I feel like clearly that is not, I mean, what have been people been saying? Do they just say one person? Like that’s crazy. But for me, I think it’s had a journey, right? 

P: Yeah

H: Like when you started off, um, oh god, as cliche as this is, lord. But, when my teacher was like, in freshman year of high school, she knew that, again, I was very artistic. And she purposefully pull a book that was just, here I go, god. Delete this part. Just kidding. Frida Kahlo. She was like, “Here’s a book about Frida Kahlo.” I understand there’s so many problems with Frida Kahlo and I totally don’t see her as like, no, I see her as complex, right? 

P: Yeah

H: But for me, that was kind of like my introduction, not necessarily art, but, but understanding that this person, in all their ailments, whether or not they were privileged, that they were able to make a life as an artist. So for me that was kind of like the, the thing that hooked me. Like, “Ah, wait what was her job? She just did this?” and I was like, “Interesting. I want to do that.” You know? So for me, again, yes I start with, with her because, who didn’t? But then really thinking about Mexico City. Jesusa Rodriguez as a performance artist when I started really diving into that.

P: Uh-huh

H: She made such a huge impact on me. And I know that in Mexico she considers herself like a theatre artist. But I feel like that Mexico has a different relationship to…

P: They do.

H: …performance art and theatre. You know what I mean? Here we’re like, “Theatre? Never! I’m a performance artist!” There it’s a little bit different. 

P: Mhm

H: So, she was influential as heck. Like just how forceful and funny and witty and beautiful her, her presentations were. But then the conversations that were being had were so dense and so amazing.

P: Mhm

H: I’ll never forget when she was like, “America,” like, “you couldn’t even name yourself. You literally named yourself the name of the continent.” And I’m like, “Oh my god.” Like she’s putting words to the things that I’m trying to decipher.

P: Yes.

H: So she’s amazing. Um, of course, Cezanne and Matisse. Cezanne because when, um, my last year in high school I had a chance to go to France and Provence. And we toured his studio and we were in his neighborhood and it was, it was just, you know, I always loved him. So Cezanne for sure. Matisse because I’m from Baltimore and Baltimore has the biggest, largest collection of Matisse in the world at the Baltimore Museum of Arts. So whether or not I want to accept it, I see Matisse’s influence in my work all the time. So I’m like, “Ah, there you are.” Um, Teresita Fernandez is amazing contemporary artist. Coco Fusco who I mentioned earlier has had such tremendous impact…

P: Mhm

H: …in my life. And I was lucky enough to take a, a long, or a short workshop with her in Provincetown that was very important. Guillermo Gómez-Peña, Kara Walker, Octavio Paz, El Eduardo Galeano, La Chica Boom, Carrie Mae Weems, I don’t know. I could go on. 

P: No, well, thank you. Thank you so much. And then, um, I’m curious.

H: You’re like, “These were short answer.”

P: Well, they’re your answers, you know? It’s OK. Um, so a little bit, I guess this would be more short answer. But like do you have a, a favorite album? Like musical album?

H: You know what I…I don’t know if I have like a favorite. I, no, these are like, this is why it’s prob-, or trouble for me. But, my current album that I’m really liking is Helado Negro. Have you heard of Helado Negro? So Helado Negro is amazing musician, Latinx, from in the States. Uh, I want to say they were in L.A. but they might have moved. Uh, they have a new album, um, “This Is How You Smile.” It’s so beautiful. It’s stunning. Like seriously. Everybody go check it out. It’s just perfect for in the studio. Um, so yeah that’s what I’m listening to right now. So I kind of, this is what I do. I’ll be hooked on something and I’m hooked on it for like a week. Like I’m like this thing’s been playing non-stop and then I’m like, “OK, I’m done.” So I kind of move on to things. 

P: Perfect. And I’ll have to listen to that now while I edit all….

H: You’ll love it. It’s so nice.

P: So do you have a, what about a favorite movie right now? 

H: Oh. God. Oh no. Right now. What is it? You know what? I’m blanking out. Oh, you know what is not a movie from right now?

P: Uh-huh?

H: But do you remember that movie, The Price of Everything? 

P: No I don’t. 

H: Oh, you have to watch that. The Price of Everything. I think, I want to say 2019 but it might have been 2018.

P: OK

H: It was on HBO and it’s about the art world. And the innerworkings. And it follows, you know, um, a collector, advisors, or historians and then artists.

P: Yes, yes, yes.

H: And it’s shocking to see the behind the scenes, right? I mean, we know this stuff but when you see it, you’re like, “Holy shit.” Like this is how the art world works and it does, it gave me an understanding of how to better kind of approach sales and engaging with, you know, arts collectors. 

P: Oh good. Educational.

H: Oh and what about that movie Mi Familia. I know it’s so old. Do you remember that movie? 

P: Uh-huh, yeah, yeah.

H: My family. So good. 

P: Um, what about a favorite play? 

H: Oh god. I don’t know. I’m blanking out on plays.

P: That’s OK. We can…

H: I don’t, I don’t do too many plays.

P: That’s OK! 

H: I don’t. Yeah.

P: And what about a, a book? 

H: Sorry listeners. A book. Well, you know what? A book I will, let me shout out The Labyrinth of Solitude by Octavio Paz. Even though that’s an older book. Just because it was so influential for me. Um, another influential book that kind of like kickstarted my thinking in this way was obviously Borderlands, La Frontera by Gloria E. Anzaldua. 

P: Oh. Mhm

H: And, um, uh, oh my god. I’m blanking out on the other book. But there was this book. I can’t remember his name. I’m going to, oh no, I’m going to be so mad at myself. But it was about essentially the perception or how the construction of the Mexican in the United States happening through film. So it really goes into the history of how did we come to think of Mexicans as the way we do now. Like when the, the, this, you know, man in the White House was like, “Oh, they’re rapists, they’re this or that.” Or, “They’re lazy.” Where does, do those things come from? It was really revolutionary for my thinking to realize that it’s been these constructions, mostly by white people, uh, presenting the Mexican to mass audiences. And how that presentation or caricature of the Mexican stays with us. So when we close our eyes and think about Speedy Gonzales, we associate it with a Mexican. But if you think about Speedy Gonzalez he was not fast because he was fast and amazing, he was fast because he was a thief. He slept in a can of tuna or sardines. You know what I mean?

P: Yeah

H: So…

P: Yeah

H: …it was important to deconstruct that in order to not be bound by it. 

P: Mhm. Interesting. 

H: Yeah

P: No, it’s…Yeah. And, um, if you…

H: Oh! Let me. The author is William Nericcio but I can’t remember the book. 

P: OK. I’ll link all that to our website as well. So people can find all that information there. Um, so what about, we’re sort of in like a crazy time right now at large in the world. But do you have any idea of when your next show or function is? 

H: So, you know what? Couple of my things were postponed. So, because I don’t, I can say my next function is launching a brand new podcast called La Valentina podcast. It will be airing across all, um, you know, platforms that have your favorite podcasts. And I am co-hosting it with my good friend and artist, Estefani Mercedes, in Washington, D.C. And we are just two queer Latinx artists getting together, having our conversations about the art world, our favorite artists, and also pop culture. 

P: Mhm

H: So it’s very casual. I think that a lot of our, the work that we do independently is so heavy, as you can tell from this conversation. That, uh, we’re kind of taking a little bit of a more lighthearted approach with the podcast.

P: OK

H: So we are hoping to do interviews with queer, Latinx artists but at the moment we’re just, you know, um, having like little kiki at the beginning and then engaging in a substantial conversation. So some of the conversations have been about resources for artists during COVID or how do, how can artists help in the mourning process. 

P: Mhm

H: During like, you know, such a, a tragic situation like this. Uh, we also dive into is art school worth it? Should artists consider art school or not? 

P: Mhm

H: Um, and you know, those types of topics that, again, are appropriate to the artist community, uh, but are a little bit cheekier and a little bit more fun. 

P: Yeah, yeah.

H: So, follow-up. La Valentina podcast on Instagram and LaValentinapodcast.com. 

P: I love it. We’ll link all of that to the interview transcript as well. Um, well, yeah congrats on all of that and I look forward to listening.

H: Yes! I’m excited that you’re starting this platform or have this podcast because I’m going to be looking at the roster and maybe I’ll be pulling a few from there.

P: Perfect! Um, well I have, I guess I have one final question for you. And that is, if you had like a little bit of advice for a beginning professional, um, in the arts world or in, as an artist, or if you had a little bit of advice for yourself when you were getting started out, what would that be? 

H: Hmm. You know, I think that if you’ve already jumped through the hurdles of realizing, yes, I am, I’m committing to making art or that is something that is a calling for me, I think first of all is accepting that and then just kind of like really, uh, accepting yourself within that, uh, you know, context. And then I will say that whether or not you go through art schooling, I think that, um, knowledge and learning is so important. And it does not have to just come from, say, an academic setting. So just how are you approaching your research? How are you always learning? How are you establishing your art practice? Um, I think that one of the biggest things that I learned was, you know, a lot of us maybe have this romantic idea of, “Oh, to be a full-time artist means a hundred percent of your time is spent making art and in the studio.”

P: Mhm

H: And I have found that that is not a, the correct approach. I mean, if you’re able to do so, amazing. And I’m glad you have a trust fund. But if you don’t have a trust fund, I think that you need to develop a good, uh, balance between your studio practice. And let’s be real, your office, boring, work. Like you have to do administrative work. Which means crafting your artist bio. Making sure you have a headshot. Rewriting your artist statement. 

P: Mhm

H: You know, paying for a website.You know, because, you know, these things do matter in the way that people see you from the outside. So it takes time. And I am not kidding you when I say it’s about half and half. Like you spend half the time working on computer stuff and half the time in the studio. So that is such a, I think, an important piece that, uh, is not told or, or reiterated to us in schooling. I did go through art school. It’s not reiterated and I noticed that it’s what you have to do. Like, those grants applications are not going to submit themselves. Unless you create, you know, maybe you have an assistant that’s doing it for you. But if you don’t, then there’s a… You know, I would wake up at 8 a.m. and spend the first two hours dealing with art stuff. Like going through artist calls. Understanding what is the ecosystem in, what’s the arts ecosystem out there? What are the types of opportunities that are available? So, for instance, when I started doing my, my project grants, I knew what little grants were available. And then when I saw some fellowships have been developed, like Tulsa Artist Fellowship, I was like, “Oh my god! That’s a substantial package.” So you start to kind of map out what’s out there. And then figure out what aligns with you, what do you need. And then it makes it easier for you to kind of like, um, make a plan to go get those things. That’s a lot, I know. That’s a lot of information. But, um, it, you know, nobody’s going to be doing this stuff for you. Nobody cares if you succeed as an artist.

P: Exactly.

H: There’s so many artists out there. Like, there’s, it’s not like we’re lacking artists in the world. So you got to, you know, we’re our own employees.

P: You got to push yourself to the top somehow, you know? And also, you know, I used to joke when I was like once upon a time when I was working on my Bachelor’s, and the, in art. And I was like, “Man, if I had realized that I was going to have to be my own like administrator and public relations manager…”

H: Uh-huh

P: “…would’ve maybe picked a different career.” You know? But, now look at me. Like I have a podcast. Like what have I done?

H: Yeah. You know what? But it’s also, it is amazing because it is a lot of work.

P: Yeah

H: But then you realize, “Holy cow. I have so many skills.”

P: Yes.

H: You know? You’re suddenly able to like, I don’t know. For me, transferring from this like, “Oh, 

I’m a poor little artist.”

P: Mhm

H: “Don’t you want to help me?” That is so defeating and like so, it makes you feel gross. As opposed to then changing that and being like, “Hello. I am your partner. We are equals. Yes, you’re paying my check. But guess what, you need me.”

P: Yeah, yeah.

H: “To complete what it is that you’re trying to complete.” So changing that mentality of like the starving, poor artist at the will of the world to “No, I’m in control.” Um, “I am an equal to you. Let’s talk.” And guess what? That changes the way that people relate to you. Because they know they can’t fuck you over. 

P: Amen. 

H: You’re like, “The end.” 

P: Yeah

H: This is… 

P: I love it. Um, well, I, I so much appreciate your time today. It’s been really great to get to know you better. And hear about your…

H: Thank you so much. 

P: …trajectory, and work, and your current situation there in Tulsa, and everything. So I really appreciate it. 

H: I appreciate you reaching out. I think that this is exciting and I can’t wait to dive into…Yes, the actual episodes but also the transcriptions, right? I’m like, “Oh, what an amazing historical record.”

P: Aw, thank you. 

H: Yeah! So, congrats on launching it.

P: Thank you! And I hope to see you in August maybe in Tulsa. Should…

H: Yes, yes, yes! Hopefully, yes. So that’s still happening, right? 

P: Yes. Yep. As far as I know. 

H: Yes! I’ll definitely see you then. 

P: Perfect. Perfect. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. 

H: Thank you! Have a good one! Bye listeners! 

P: I hope you all had as much fun listening to this podcast as I had speaking and learning more about Hoesy Corona’s work. Because we talked so much about all of the current events in the world and maybe skipped over some of the major projects that Hoesy has accomplished in his life, I really encourage you to go see his website and research a little bit more about him. His website is: www.hoesycorona.com

References: 

1. Guanajuato, Mexico: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guanajuato_City
2. The Hirshhorn Museum and Sculpture Garden: https://www.si.edu/museums/hirshhorn-museum-and-sculpture-garden
3. Transformer DC: http://www.transformerdc.org/
4. The Baltimore Museum of Art: https://artbma.org/
5. The Walters Art Museum: https://thewalters.org/
6. Gilcrease Museum: https://gilcrease.org/
7. The Reach at The Kennedy Center: https://www.kennedy-center.org/reach/
8. Tulsa Artist Fellowship: https://www.tulsaartistfellowship.org/
9. Merriweather District Artist in Residence: https://merriweatherdistrict.com/
10. Halcyon Arts Lab Fellowship: https://halcyonhouse.org/arts-lab
11. Ruby’s Artist Grant: https://www.rwdfoundation.org/rubys
12. Maryland State Arts Council Individual Artist Award: https://www.msac.org/programs/independent-artist-award
13. Andy Warhol Foundation Grit Fund Grant: https://www.baltimoreartsrealty.com/#grit-fund
14. LabBodies: http://www.labbodies.com/
15. La Valentina Podcast: https://lavalentinapodcast.com/
16. Patricia Frederick: https://www.patriciafrederick.com/home
17. MICA, the Maryland Institute College of Art: https://www.mica.edu/
18. University of Tulsa: https://artsandsciences.utulsa.edu/art/
19. Philbrook Museum of Art: https://philbrook.org/
20. Tulsa Race Massacre: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/long-lost-manuscript-contains-searing-eyewitness-account-tulsa-race-massacre-1921-180959251/
21. Black Wall Street: https://greenwoodculturalcenter.com/black-wall-street
22. Court Painter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court_painter
23. Medici: https://www.florenceinferno.com/the-medici-family/#:~:text=The%20Medici%20family%2C%20also%20known,and%20from%201527%20to%201530).
24. Leonardo da Vinci: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_da_Vinci
25. Art washing: https://www.artspace.com/magazine/art_101/in_depth/art-gentrification-what-is-artwashing-and-what-are-galleries-doing-to-resist-it-55124
26. Living Arts of Tulsa: http://www.livingarts.org/
27. Reconciliation Park: https://www.jhfcenter.org/reconciliation-park
28. Civil Rights Era: https://www.history.com/topics/black-history/civil-rights-movement
29. huge recession time period: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depression_of_1920%E2%80%931921
30. murder of George Floyd: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/31/us/george-floyd-investigation.html
31. Greenwood District: https://greenwoodculturalcenter.com/
32. Council Oak: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creek_Council_Oak_Tree
33. Talasi: https://www.tulsacounty.org/tulsacounty/section.aspx?id=12990
34. you can read her, her accounts: https://www.wmfe.org/meet-the-last-surviving-witness-to-the-tulsa-race-riot-of-1921/155540
35. Ada Pinkston: https://adapinkston.com/
36. Coco Fusco: https://www.cocofusco.com/menu
37. White Construction: https://hoesycorona.com/artwork/4493369-White-Construction-No-2-2017.html
38. Brady Street: https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/brady-street-is-now-reconciliation-way-but-tulsa-still-has-a-few-other-dubious-namesake/article_ad0a3bcf-c9de-5fdd-bf16-af506fb5e816.html
39. Brady Theater: https://bradytheater.com/
40. Brady: https://www.okhistory.org/publications/enc/entry.php?entry=BR002
41. Ku Klux Klan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan
42. M.B. Brady: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathew_Brady
43. Black Lives Matter: https://blacklivesmatter.com/
44. formation of police force was as slave catchers: https://time.com/4779112/police-history-origins/
45. the killing of Freddie Gray: https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/who-was-freddie-gray-and-how-did-his-death-lead-to-a-mistrial-in-baltimore/2015/12/16/b08df7ce-a433-11e5-9c4e-be37f66848bb_story.html
46. Permanent resident: https://www.uscis.gov/green-card
47. The Nobodies: https://hoesycorona.com/section/427609-The-Nobodies-2009-Present.html
48. Octavio Paz: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octavio_Paz
49. The Labyrinth of Solitude: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Labyrinth_of_Solitude
50. The Scapegoats: https://hoesycorona.com/artwork/4473801-Scapegoat-Idol-2017-series.html
51. Potential History: Unlearning Imperialism: https://books.google.com/books/about/Potential_History.html?id=3tKJDwAAQBAJ
52. Frida Kahlo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frida_Kahlo
53. Jesusa Rodriguez: https://hemisphericinstitute.org/en/hidvl-collections/itemlist/category/20-jesusa.html
54. Cezanne: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_C%C3%A9zanne
55. Matisse: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henri_Matisse
56. Teresita Fernandez: https://www.lehmannmaupin.com/artists/teresita-fernandez
57. Guillermo Gómez-Peña: https://arts.ucdavis.edu/faculty-profile/guillermo-gomez-pena
58. Kara Walker: https://art21.org/artist/kara-walker/
59. Eduardo Galeano: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eduardo_Galeano
60. La Chica Boom: http://www.xandraibarra.com/about/
61. Carrie Mae Weems: https://art21.org/artist/carrie-mae-weems/?gclid=Cj0KCQjw3ZX4BRDmARIsAFYh7ZKs9YxroZNEm9xcF6QudqAQynj68upxtK_7R3BywFlgM7P8wuxFF-EaAobqEALw_wcB
62. Helado Negro: https://heladonegro.com/
63. This is How You Smile: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG5AzFoA1Wg&list=PLmKSumQHAb7cgOLGBs_Ed-Nja5LXh4_WS
64. The Price of Everything: http://www.thepriceofeverything.com/
65. Mi Familia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Family_(film)
66. Borderlands, La Frontera: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borderlands/La_Frontera:_The_New_Mestiza
67. Gloria E. Anzaldua: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloria_E._Anzald%C3%BAa
68. Speedy Gonzales: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speedy_Gonzales
69. William Nericcio: https://literature.sdsu.edu/people/bios/nericcio.html
70. Estefani Mercedes: https://halcyonhouse.org/estefan%C3%AD-mercedes

Image List:

1.) Alien Nation, 2017

Hirshhorn Museum and Sculpture Garden

Washington, DC

curated by Victoria Reis

photo by Andy DelGiudice

*Was a 24 person site specific performance and temporary installation considering the impending plight of global climate induced migration. This was the first iteration of my ongoing series “Climate Immigrants” 2017-present.

2.) Mother Death Life Mama, 2012-present

The Reach at The Kennedy Center

Washington, DC

curated by Carrie Mae Weems

photo by the artist

*Was a 7 person processional performance throughout the streets of DC that confronts us with the taboo topic of death and invites us to meditate on our very own life and mortality while considering our place within the natural ecosystem.

3.) Climate Immigrants, 2017-present

Siren Arts, oceanfront

Asbury Park, NJ

curated by Victoria Reis

photo by Ashley Rosas

*Was an 8 person site specific processional performance agains the New Jersey oceanfront that poetically considered the impending plight of climate induced migration worldwide.

4.) LandScape Goat, 2013-present

Decker Gallery

Baltimore, MD

Curated by Kim Domanski, Baltimore Office and Promotion of the Arts

photo courtesy of the artist

*Is a series of large sculptures or “Scapegoat Thrones”, made by wrapping found objects around chairs, that consider the archetype of the scapegoat in relationship to the price of our comfort.

5.) White Constructions, 2016-present

True Turn Building by Taf

Tulsa, OK

Curated by TAF

Photo courtesy of the artist

*Is an installation based series that critiques the arbitrary construction of race in the United States and its negative ramifications for Black and other People of Color. The series also considers the ways in which the construction of oppressive language upholds these structural systems and asks us to consider and interrogate our own relationship to language and each other.

HEADSHOT PHOTO BY: Melissa Lukenbaugh

HOME – PODCAST – SHOP