PROArtes México

Episode 1.8

Interview with Daniel Godínez Nivón, by Stephanie García on June 3rd, 2020

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Stephanie (S): Daniel studied Visual Arts at the National School of Plastic Arts of UNAM and the Master’s Degree in the same house of studies. In 2011, he co-authored  Multiple Media Book 3. His work has been presented collectively at the Jardin de Academus: Art and Education Laboratories exhibition at MUAC, VanAbbe Museum in the Netherlands and the Center for Contemporary Arts CCA in Glasgow. He has been a Fellow of the Young Creators Program during 2011 – 2012 and 2019 – 2020 of the National Fund for Culture and the Arts. In 2014 he studied at the Superior National School of Fine Arts in Paris. In 2019 he is nominated to obtain the Visible Award. 

S: Hello Daniel, welcome to ‘Aqui & Allá: conversations with creators of contemporary art from Mexico and the USA.’ We are very happy that you accepted this invitation! How do you feel?

Daniel (D): Very good! Well, first, thanks for the invitation, Stephanie! I’m fine, here at home, enjoying this cloudy afternoon.

S: Very well. Well look, we already gave a short introduction of who you are, but we would like to ask you… can you describe to us in your own words, where you are from and who you are.

D: Well, gladly. Ehhh, well, my name is Daniel Godínez Nivón. I am a visual artist, graduated from UNAM, from the Ex National School of Visual Arts, today the Faculty of Arts and Design. And well, I am a kind of a kicked can. I like to call it that, because I have a diverse background in a family way and well, also personally. And well, I come from a Juchitecan family, Zapotec from the Isthmus of Tehuantepec. And well, it has been crucial in my life to grow up with that great family presence. I grew up in San Cristóbal de las Casas in Chiapas in my early childhood, it was also crucial for me. And well, I dedicate myself to art and it has a lot to do with those childhood and family experiences. I have been working for 10 years in specific contexts, with communities,  mainly migrants from Oaxaca, Zapotecs, Mixes, Mixtecos, Triquis. And I collaborate with them from a work system called tequio, that’s good. Later I will be able to delve into that. But they, ideally they are collaborative processes, which are generated with these groups of people, for years.

S: At what point did you arrive in Mexico City?

D: Well, I was born here. I was born here, when I was a few months old, I was born in ‘85, it was that the Quake, Earthquake of ‘85 occurred. And my parents… my father, uh, let’s say his profession, was a public accountant, it was the way in which he generated income and so on. And my mother was, she is a pedagogue-teacher. And after the Earthquake they gave a complete turn to his life and decided to leave the City, from this environment because of death, tragedy, let’s say, you can imagine. It was what happened and they went to San Cristóbal to live there. My father decided to deepen his life in poetry, he could be a poet. And well my mother was able to continue developing her pedagogical processes with communities there. Mainly with the Zoques. So, that was, in fact, which is why I had to live in Chiapas. And well, I also assume myself as a mixture between these two great influences, and above all, the act of radically changing lives. That is one thing that I value very much.

S: And then, at what point do you decide to come to the City?

D: Well, again it was not my decision. I was also very small and at barely 8 years, a few months before the uprising of the Zapatista Army of National Liberation, we returned to Mexico City. Look, on the one hand I think that the bohemian atmosphere in San Cristóbal, that those who do not know, is an exuberant place in its cultural and natural wealth, and I suppose that also, a concern for my parents was that, because of the educational environment, other types of references, other types of ehhh, well, confrontations. And my parents decided to return. My father returned to the bureaucratic environment, say, also to teaching, My mother also to work in universities. And I was very small, that’s why I tell you ‘kicked can’. I haven’t had much influence (in decisions) until recently.

S: Yeah. So now that you tell us a bit about your father’s influence, about poetry. My next question is: how do you get into the art world? I think a little bit he (his father) could have influenced it.

D: If it is…. It is very curious, huh. I grew up in a very fortunate environment, and I lived in the forest – imagine. I grew up in San Cristóbal, in the forest. Tons, I had a childhood with a lot of fascination for the environment, the world, well, well, the natural world, by the sounds, Anyway, I was privileged, say, for having that contrast. Good, now as a chilango, I value and respect that a lot. Ehhh my father, of course, with the presence of poetry and literature, It was a constant but, like every young man, I grew up with a slight aversion to all of that. The obligation and the presence of literature in my house was like an imposition, which I wanted to keep apart. I drew, I watched my movies, over and over, and over. Actually, and during my adolescence even, I wanted to study medicine for a long time. Well, specifically because I wanted to be, imagine, I wanted to dedicate myself to psychiatry. I was fascinated by dreams, fascinated by conversation, with the mind and its mysteries, wasn’t I? And well, the time came when you had to choose a career. And well, the truth is that I, too, have never been a person, ehhh, how can you say?, with a desire to submit to those structures of school authority, especially in a career as demanding as medicine. And well, at the last moment I decided to study arts –  the last day. It was a hasty decision, and well, quite lucky actually.

S: Very well. Ehh, what is art for you?

D: Well, wow! Ehh, for me art is a way of generating knowledge. I think it is a tool, it can be used as such, which allows us to delve deeper, investigate complex and diverse aspects of what we can call reality. For me, art participates in the generation of other perspectives, it broadens perception. And well, also as a teacher and one, let’s say, a practice that has accompanied me during my professional years, as an artist/producer, has been teaching, which is my counterpart a lot. I believe that an educational practice carried out with consistency and ethical rigor, honesty; It is very similar to what I understand by art.

S: You told us that you are a graduate of UNAM, but how did you decide, because, of course, you could have decided between different artistic disciplines, but at what point do you say: ‘I want to be a visual artist’?

D: Well, it was just that last day of the CCH Vallejo career choice …

S: With all or nothing!

D: That’s right, it was a last minute decision. I mean, art was something that I had very much in mind, wasn’t it? I had like hundreds of references, I grew up with them, a lot of cinema, I liked to make watercolors from a very young age. All of my childhood, the natural world, and well, it seemed to me that if I was not willing to study 7 years something that I did not want, just to be able to study dreams. Well, why not start now? And that was the moment when I decided on visual arts and to go to Xochimilco.

S: Ok. Yes Yes. South of the city.

D: That’s right.

S: Right now, that you can already look at this retrospective, which you comment, “was very fortunate”, even when it was a last minute decision, in what way…? Before going into your artwork as a background, I want to talk about some of them. But in what way does your profession determine what is important to pursue or do?

D: Mmm, well, actually, I believe that my profession, knowing myself as an artist and having developed this thought these years, well, short, I have actually been around 11 years as a professional. I suppose that it has given me the ability to know things that, maybe, within the same traditional career in the visual arts, one, a space as orthodox as it could be, as was my school, I believe that art has allowed me to confront many other areas that do not have to do with art history as we know it. I think that as a person, I am very curious and I am intrigued by many things. Ehh, like Daniel, say, and now the possibility of generating art and its socialization are ways of approaching that unknown, those wonders that go beyond me all the time. Ehh, but, in reality, I think that my training has allowed me to marvel at the unknown and also, to assume that art is a field that has its limiting conditions, independent of our personal history, our genuine concerns and our ingenuities, transcending it, deepening.

S: Very well. Ok, now yes. I am going to delve a little. I would like to talk about this project for which you were nominated for Visible, which is an organization created by the Pista del Arte Pistoletto Foundation and the Zegna Foundation. This organization aims to make visible and give strength to artistic interventions that have a real capacity to generate an impact on the social and cultural imagination of our contemporary world. This nomination was for your project which is Tequiografias. So, I would very much like you to tell us, what is it? Now if you can go deeper, you know, with this that you told us at the beginning, which comes from the tequio and then we will delve a little more about it.

D: Yes, with pleasure. ‘Tequiographies’ is a project that emerged in 2010. It was exactly my undergraduate thesis. With that project I left school, and was part of a work process with artists, a degree seminar called, Multiple Media, the Media Seminar Multiple; which is still coordinated by a teacher/artist named José Miguel González Casanova. It was in this educational context where, say, we developed a series of exercises and experiences that we launched for research. Well, everything arose, as I said at the beginning, from reflecting on the relationship of the indigenous presence in the City and mainly, from my family. Everything arose as I commented at the beginning, there, in what way are the Juchitecan women, there are many of them, my aunts, my grandmother, my mother…? In what way are they perceived in the City, and well, historically? We know that in the history of art, for example, with this nationalist agenda, ehh, the image of the peoples was represented, from the working hands of the land, corn, right?, the men of corn… Finally, it was a policy very much of that context and of that time. And so I, at that moment, I was wondering, how effective, how legitimate is it, back then, 2010, to represent the peoples in this way? In what way are peoples present in representation, in art, shall we say? Those were my initial questions. 

And well, after working on my degree, in the painting and engraving workshops, I worked many representations of my aunts. I did a series called, ‘Dadaísmo de Tehuantepec’, which painted and made woodcuts of my aunts in dramatic, delusional situations. And well, once this intimate and family process was carried out, it was that in this Seminar, with the help of my colleagues then, it was to transcend this intimate personal relationship to the urban context, to the social fabric. And well, it was, it is something that I really like to emphasize. Ehhh, for those who listen to us or can read us in the future, it is always appealing to naivety. This was a process in which, I really had no idea what was going to happen. I just started from genuine outrage at the way in which, many of these peoples are represented, the brutal classism that, well, these days there is a lot of discussion about the permanence of various inertias of racial discrimination, right?, and well, classism in this country is a systematic thing that we have been dragging. Anyway, this constant wound is something that, as a creative engine, that I decided to work from that. So, at the beginning, after working with my family, with the Juchitecan women, I decided to work with other groups in the City. At the beginning it was very difficult. At the beginning I was traveling in the Metro and I saw these people, which you have surely seen, who go and give you little pieces of paper that say, “I come from the Sierra de Puebla, ehhh, a support.” right ? And well, these people were like ghosts of the City, like invisible. So I asked myself, “As a visual artist, what do I make visible? How can we participate in the visibility of these groups?”  Ehh, and well, at first I tried to talk to them. Those people were from Veracruz, these groups spoke Náhuatl, I don’t speak Náhuatl, they didn’t speak Spanish, and we had to face that dimension of, that distance. We tried to do some exercises. Of course we drew, some series of gestures, of exchange-gift, but, everything was for me very revealing, about the way in which one can develop an intimate process, a process too, taking into account aspects, potentially painful themes, criticisms, right? So I came to one, to a group, to an association called the Assembly of Indigenous Migrants (AMI). This is a space organized by a group of Zapotecs, Mixes, Mixtecos, Triquis graduated, some of them studied at UPN, which is the National Pedagogical University, there in the South of Mexico City, ehh, the Bachelors of Indigenous Education. And well, like many groups of Oaxacans, specifically Oaxacans and migrants in the various cities of the world, they always seek to be together and develop processes together. And well, the AMI has been an effort of these, of these concerns and identities, right? Well, I arrived at AMI one day, to tell them that I was interested in doing a work process with them. I arrived and introduced myself, “My name is Daniel, I am an artist and I would like to do a project with you.” They told me, “Well, good for you, but we work here in tequio.” I said, “Where? How is that?” They told me, “Tequio is the way in which we work in the towns and we work in the AMI. This means that we are going to make an exchange. We can help you do your project, but you have to give us something in return, some of your work. What do you know how to do?” And well I told them: ‘I know how to draw and I paint’. They said, ‘Perfect, Perfect! You are going to give us a drawing workshop. You are going to teach us how to draw. And well, what is your project? How can we help you?” I said to them, “No, No, I don’t know! I don’t have a project. I wanted to meet you.” That obviously aroused a gesture of great confidence due to this naivety that I emphasize. The AMI, like many other migrant groups, are used to the presence of the anthropologist, mainly, that as you know, from the academic rigor and the scientific method. They are profiles that inevitably face a process of objectification. Ehh, in such a way that relationships and individuals are reified, and it becomes a space for analysis, a space for scrutiny where formats such as this, such as the interview, are essential, blogs and others. And what happens in the towns is… that is not customary, that is not a way of relating. And above all, many of the works culminate in a thesis that circulates in the academy, the final paper is translated into several languages ​​and well, the community is left with nothing, say, right? Well, this ingenuity seemed very attractive to them and the fact that I was an artist, with the desire to exchange… What I did was learn to live in Tequio and learn to relate in Tequio with them. I didn’t know them and well, that was the beginning of this whole adventure 10 years later. Ehh, every Saturday for 10 years, recently not, but every Saturday, I went to develop that drawing workshop, within the framework of Assemblies that they carried out. The Assembly of Indiginous Migrants, is a small group, an office in the Viaducto Metro, Calzada de Tlalpan, Mexico City, where around 35 people gather every Saturday. You can imagine the crowded space, the intimate, in other words, and while the adults, the founders, the members of the AMI, the family, meet to discuss the details of the Assembly, their children rehearsed in the Philharmonic Band of Mexico City. So it was, let’s say it was the pretext. The community life that was experienced there: children learning music, songs from the towns, and adults, gentlemen talking about the agenda, the Assembly projects, right? Projects that I will briefly say, such as free software workshops, Linux that implemented in that space, others, uh, teaching processes of the Triquio language, in short; various things that were scheduled and discussed. And well, at some point in those Assemblies, I was doing a drawing exercise that began as armies of memory, of memory. I had this romantic and idealized image of the migrant where I proposed to them in the beginning to do a kind of mail-art project, in which we could send the people by mail, ehh … well, that kind of thing and… well, I realized that these people actually go to their town every 2 months and had no need to send any nostalgic-fictional objects, right? But hey, they were the ideas I was thinking we could do. A year passed, a year passed in which I participated in the Assemblies, giving my drawing workshop. There is a cooperative in which they eventually got to cook and bring food. Everything was going, I joined, say, to this space as the artist who made the workshop, until one day, it occurred to me to buy some school monographs, which is good in, for whoever listens to us. But of course in Mexico there is this material for about 40 years, which are the school monographs, didactic material with which many children grew up, in the primary school where they are the teachers, they usually stop homework to get one of those monographs on specific topics to cut, illustrate. It is a sheet where on one side it has images, boxes and on the other side the information, right? And well, these are, especially the themes of history, they obey an official history and an agenda, then, already structured that also obeys these inertias that I described at the beginning, about the representation of peoples. And one day I bought, I bought some monographs of ‘Las Etnias de México I y II’. And I took them to the Assembly, I told them, “Look, this is what they teach children, about who are the indigenous peoples of Mexico.” And they saw the material, they were leafing through it, they came closer and they said… and it caused laughter. They said, “Look, this is not my body, I do not dress like this, I do not live in teepees. This is not my town,” because I was talking about the Triqui, “in my town there is a mountain that would have to be here.” Then the idea came up and I told them, “Let’s do our own monographs.” And well, the name ‘Tequiografias’, arose, it seems to me, the next morning, and well, we decided to work them from Assemblies. Again, the methodology was the same as it had been for a year. Every Saturday we held an Assembly, we chose certain relevant topics to teach the children, and all the knowledge poured out with their own voices; Assemblies that I moderated, asking about, for example, health, mathematics, the universe, the same assemblies, the naguals, in short, relevant topics for the community, and we made drawings and transcripts, eventually. And well, that was the project I did for my bachelor’s thesis and well, for this project to have force, they are school monographs that are distributed in the same places as the official monographs, in other words, in the papelería. 

S: I am very curious because yes, I just found this text by Néstor García Canclini, which talks about this, right? I like them a lot because, well, they are, for people who don’t, in particular the information from this sector of Latin America often does not flow much to the North, and vice versa, right?, but he is a great researcher on cultural issues and one of the things that talks about your work, or how, in a way, how it catalogs it is that your work, “is inscribed in a very new way in this type of effort, work, project; that artists in Mexico approach about this type of themes or social factors.” It is not minor because he is a great exponent in this type of research, but just in that text he talks about how you managed to get the Ministry of Public Education (SEP) to distribute part of this material, in certain states for educational purposes in some indigenous areas. So, I am intrigued about that, how did you do it? How was the idea to involve the SEP? What were the certain obstacles to do it? I think I imagined the answer, but why not, agreed…? It is not something that was on your part, but also from the institution, from the bureaucracy. I do not know but I am curious to know, why did it not spread further? Why doesn’t it reach more people, more sectors? Not only indigenous people, because I think it is important for other sectors to understand that yes, indeed, this information that flows, comes from a good part, in a colonial sense, or from this representation of an image that is not the true one.

D: Yes, well, it is an excellent question. I am also very intrigued about what happened. Ehh, well, what we started to do at the AMI, was to go to schools, which is something that I still do today; go to primary schools, talk to principals, some teachers, and show them the material, tell them if they consider it appropriate to use one of these monographs for their classes I will leave them at the nearest stationery store. So it has been styled and well, they have had their presence in that way. What happened with the SEP was that I was able to have contact with a person in charge of what was then an area dedicated to Indigenous Education. Eh, I don’t remember exactly how I came to that contact, but part of the distribution attempts was to go to the National Indigenous Institute, uh, to go with people from the UPN, graduates of the Degree in Indigenous Education, people who were in the institutional environment of education and that were of the towns. That was part of the strategy, as to generate empathy and thus find people who could have, find relevance to the project. I spoke with this person from the Secretary at the time. She was also intrigued in the way this project was carried out. Since you see the printed matter and you see the selection of monographs, since it is a forceful presence of work experiences, of knowledge, and with a didactic approach exactly for boys and girls; that this person was above all, eager to see how this could work. And above all, she thought about it for future indigenous teachers, how indigenous teachers could use this material for their classes. And they bought a few thousand, they bought 5,000 ‘Tequiographies’ to carry out an investigation process before these questions, in Campeche. And well, this process of which I did not know what happened. There’s really been no further contact and the communication was cut, it went cold. I honestly don’t know what happened. I believe that, of course, there is the bureaucratic vertical character and it is probably required an unusual sensitivity, perhaps, in these spaces, to find the way in which this could, this material, could have one, an impact on these educational contexts. I feel that there is, therefore, a scrutiny and speed very characteristic of these institutions, because the new, to put it in a way, or other proposals do not necessarily have interference or the machinery does not stop, it is so colossal and advances at such a constant speed that… I imagine that although this person had curious intentions to implement this material, I do not know in which step of this bureaucratic ladder this process stopped. Ehh, well I, well, I suppose, I never expected the Secretary to be interested and I think it was a very revealing moment about the possibilities that someone within this space could consider it relevant. It was also very motivating for the people of the AMI and for me, not only as an artist, but the people of the community we find this with great power, but it can have its sparkle in the institutional environment. And since then, we have tried to socialize it in moments with some other institutions, secretaries; just like in the art space, right? It is a very generous project because it has made it possible to socialize thousands, in these 10 years, thousands of monographs in various contexts, as well as the digital version for those who listen to us and read, ‘Tequiographies,’ they can download the material online for free. Some teachers, they listen to us, or implement it in their classes, or illustrate our tasks.

S: I am also curious to know: right now you were telling us about AMI, how did you perceive it…? It seems that your integration was very organic, but it was also a year of being close to them, right?, understanding their way of collaborating. But also, what I feel is that the people who emigrate, not just the City or any other state, or even outside the country; there is a vulnerability and there are a series of processes that become inclusive, violent, and aggressive for the human being; and that generates a certain distrust towards the outside. So how did people react? Was there a certain secrecy at the beginning? Or if? Because of this, you say it was like a full exercise in naivete, they also opened up in this way and, you know? Did they let things happen? Or did you perceive it…? Or, or in some other communities, do you perceive this when you go to work elsewhere, that you teach workshops, that you do this kind of thing?

D: That is a very good question and that is a crucial reflection for this type of process, especially artistic ones that involve working with the so-called, ‘projects with communities or groups.’ Of course, at the beginning, the first day when you have just met everyone, of course you introduced yourself. For some people there is skepticism, right? “What is this, this person here doing, who claims to be an artist and is a kid?” No? A young man, right? Visibly naive, which is certainly a fortress. And also, a great strength is that this person is not in a hurry. This is very important because, well, with how popular these projects are, of working with people, with groups; many of them -I don’t say all of them-, but there are a lot, which are like a kind of tourism with the groups, uh, the so-called ‘vulnerable groups,’ right? And they also start from a very colonial viewpoint, from how the artist in his power relationship, from his privilege too, right? It arrives and generates a couple of dynamics because, apparently pleasant, playful, it generates a couple of images and well, goodbye. I believe that there are also many people, as well as with the anthropologist, many groups are also skeptical of a genuine interest in work. And then I, once again having… The only certainty that I had, is that I wanted to meet them. And also confronted with my proposed personal story, for me it was a personal investigation of what it is to be a migrant in the City, thinking of my family, my grandparents, on the one hand; beyond artistic production or the frenzy of socialization, scholarships, awards, and others. It was understanding myself in the City, like this ‘kicked can. And well I, I think that was a great strength, the fact that I was not in a hurry, spending a year being in the cooperative, not in a hurry doing my drawing workshop, joking, knowing them, the workshop with the children, Banda’s music, since it is, in some way, integrated, to make you part of it -without wishing, let’s say-; but what it provokes is, therefore, a legitimacy, a presence. You earn your place in this place. 

And when the idea of ​​an already concrete project arises eventually, at such an unexpected moment, because the idea… the idea no, I did not come up with an idea, I came with a desire to meet them and I will always be very grateful because I was offered that opportunity, and the idea came from a year of work, it was a workshop if you want. It was not a dynamic, say, of knowledge, of breaking the ice and deciding on a project. It was long-winded, and that is something that I highlight about this type of process, because when you are much more tied to an agenda, whether it is a museum, a scholarship. It is very delicate, there is always the risk of precipitating things and when working with people, you are working with, you are creating a situation that is alive and affects us all. And everything can happen, can, for example, something as incredible as a pandemic can come, and this, you will know as an artist too, well, this upsets life. And this happens all the time, maybe it is not as dramatic as a pandemic, but then everything happens working with groups and that, you always have to be very considerate.

S: Right, being very sensitive to it. I see that most of the projects that one can learn about through your personal site have a lot of that character. One could imagine that the visual artist is an individual activity, and in general if it happens that way, right? That is, a much more individual process, alone where perhaps the community is not so considered. But even so, I would like to know: what are your creative processes like? How do you decide…? You know? Like this: You have followed this character of working with communities, how do you identify creative barriers? Either at the individual level or perhaps, if it happens, also at the collective level, and how do you transfer them, break them so that it generates something else?

D: Yes, well. Much of the way and the methodological tools that I use in the projects that followed the ‘Tequiografias,’ are inspired by that same logic of work that mainly if it is the Assembly, and also the ethics of the tequio. Although, I do not pretend to say that when I work with other groups, with other instances, I do tequio. But if I start from that genuine interest in knowing each other and creating something that can mean something to us, those involved, in a crucial way. Then we think about how we socialize it, then we think about its repercussion within art as a symbol, as an object for these contexts. But mainly, it is to create an environment of trust. And this only occurs knowing us. Ehh, of course the artist process, there is a degree of being, ehh, although I am not an artist of spending 12 hours in the workshop, just with the confinement. I am all the time in the workshop, but usually, I try, I need to confront my ideas with others, ehhh, to ask about their… well, get to know them. I think that is a tool, dialogue and listening. I don’t even have much to say, just listen. I consider myself, fortunately, extremely ignorant of so many things, and I need to meet people to understand myself in a diverse world, and to be fascinated and so on. For me, talking is like, knowing someone is part of my literature, it is my way of opening, of expanding my parameters, right? Ehh, and well, my creative process involves that. I believe in what is going to be, say as a project, as a process, it has to be intimately linked to the place, context, the people with whom you are conversing. Ehhh, and this piece or the result of this interaction and process, which I don’t know is going to happen, of course, is always an action-research process, right? As each conversation, as each encounter, concerns arise, issues arise, fears, longings, concerns, games arise… and from that, something to make is defined. And it is crucial that what is done has a real impact on our lives. It is not, of course, it is not a fetish object for sale or, let’s say, socializing in a gallery just for the sake of it. What is done has to have an impact on our lives. And well, as an artist I involve drawing, video, installation, but it is mainly the result, the decanting of these poured intimacies, isn’t it?

S: Also in these processes it is extremely important… I think that the biggest critic becomes oneself, right? But many times it can be complex to be objective with yourself. So external criticism is also important. So, I would like to ask you if you consider that, if criticism is important, and how do you face it?

D: No way, of course! Criticism is crucial. In such projects, they also lead to feedback and confrontations from many fields, right? What I believe is that, we are building ourselves. I build my practice in this same form of action research. I am finding, ehh, things that I like much more than others, that I saw 5 years ago, or even at the origin of all this, which was with the tequio. Yes, I, I am willing to learn and certainly, with everything that happens, especially currently in the world, I am here expressing my desire by myself, to be conversing and to be in contact with others, when now it is impossible, when we cannot hold assemblies and at least. I am not so much a participant in holding an assembly at Zoom. I enjoy these encounters, of this freedom of time; and that also puts it, well, it is not a criticism of a group or a way of thinking, but the world is changing. At least it allows me to recode and rethink my ways of interaction. Also, how can I continue with what I like about these integrations, these processes, with these obstructions? No? These limitations of, well, to develop affections, intimacies, right? It is also very enriching, I think, that criticism, a critique in a generous aspect, that problematizes processes, relationships, because it allows you to see from other angles with your actions and your work… And the world is changing, people change and you have to change.

S: Right. In this sense, well, we can say that in a way, the pandemic has affected your practice, right? But there is also something that… we have talked with other artists, creators, and there are, some are going through, and in particular, not only with the pandemic but with what is happening now in the field of Human Rights, there are many people who feel unmotivated by this type of panorama. I have always thought that art is a therapeutic space , and it helps you to sublimate certain emotions from certain reflections. But sometimes you can’t help feeling without the spirit to do it, or yes, completely unmotivated. Has it happened to you? And how do you face that? Is there something you can do to stay motivated/creative? Because it may also be that you are not so bad emotionally but you do not feel very creative, in the last days. So how have you lived through this pandemic process? I know that it is a particularly short period, we have been, in Mexico in particular, two months and weeks of confinement, but in a society where we are super dynamic, very festive, that we like the relationship with the other, to talk, to be present. Well, if there is something that changes and it is difficult to understand it in such a short period of time. So how did you deal with this?

D: Well, so far, as you mention, we are probably in, what our Undersecretary of Health calls ‘the ACME‘. Well, not only him, but it is the scientific name of the highest critical point of contagion. We are at least half way through the impact of the epidemic in Mexico. So, well, I feel right in the middle of a joy where I feel very lucky to recognize that I have a home, that I have a job, that I can review online, I can have meetings of this type to express my feelings for the future. Readers, and you listen, I really appreciate that. I also appreciate that my family, my parents are well and that is for me, because it is a certainty, a finding of clarity within all this that occurs. On the other hand, people very close to me have passed away, relatives of very dear friends, people from… I mean, anyway, it’s happening too. People are facing a very dramatic situation where the economies are being attacked in a historical way, in such a way that, of course, it is difficult to think like three months ago, last year, with the same energy, with the same attitude of association of ideas, the same creative concerns. There are things you asked me a few months ago, which do not interest me in the least now. Now I think it is very important to rethink ourselves, especially as artists, as cultural agents, people in museum institutions, cultural managers, people involved in culture, which is also the group in Mexico… If by itself, there was already a colossal precariousness of culture, now with the cuts, everything may seem more overwhelming. I appeal to really generate an artistic community, in which much more radical affection and gestures of solidarity prevail. We always talk about this and many people who name it, but I think museums have to try to rethink their role a lot. Of course, we have to do the edges, and much more forceful acts are required. And not even thinking that this is going to be an art project that you are going to share and socialize later for the scholarship, or for the foreign or national institution. There are really urgent things to do. I know what I say sounds urgent and it is, but it is not for that reason that we have to act suddenly. I think we have to identify who our allies are, with whom we can make an artistic community. There are many, of course and generate strategies because, well, especially in Latin America and Mexico, specifically, things are going to be much more dramatic. And well, regarding the situation of Human Rights, based on what has arisen in the United States, and has generated a great debate and good. This in Mexico is also a daily confrontation and the precariousness together with all this, let’s say, ehhh, how sordid the panorama can seem, will also affect, continue to affect our relationships. And well, I just think there is a lot to do. The world is being reconfigured and we have to work for our community, for the public calls of the spaces, of the museums, with whom we want to continue sharing our work, our intimacy, our will, creative and be more daring.

S: Yes, it seems to me that it is a very peculiar point of view, it is true what you say, there has been a lot of talk about the artistic community, the union force, but sometimes it seems that it is not a real position, right? I think that is where our weakness as an artistic guild/non-guild lies. Well, I also read that after ‘Tequiografias’ comes ‘Tequiorolas’, which is a work of a process very similar to Tequiografias; but it is to generate… sound pieces, would you call them?

D: Mmmhm (affirming).

S: Ehh, and a couple more are coming. The truth is that one of my favorites is Informal Choir because the truth transports me. This is Mexico City and I love it. And others are coming… this collective of Free Knowledge Traffic, which I love because the acronym refers you to the FTA, right?, to the Free Trade Agreement. But this has another implication, which I love. But I would like to talk about MUNAL Hall.

D: Ok.

S: Why am I telling you this? Because when I saw a small video of what it was about. It reminded me of this curator whose name is Ariela Azozulay, who recently published her new book, last year, which is called, Potential History, Unlearning Imperialism. And it seems to me that what you do with this piece in MUNAL, because it is also in MUNAL!  Uhh, i don’t know, immediately referred me to that, right? I mean, I heard an interview with her a few months ago on a podcast where she talks about her book, and at some point she talks about museums. In other words, what she defends in this book is that “photography played an active role, not only from an observational point of view, but from Imperialism.” And at some point she talks about museums as such, which for me was strong because I love museums, I love going to see exhibitions, or going to see works of art… but it’s true, the museum is certainly an institution built from the point from the point of view of Imperialism or Colonialism. So, when I see this piece, it refers me to it because what I think is that it changes the character for which the museum, and in particular the MUNAL is made. So, I would like you to tell us a bit about Salón MUNAL, how did it come about, and what happens in that, what happens to the people who go and are part of the piece too?

D: Salón MUNAL was an initiative originally thought, like the Museum’s Department of Education, to generate an activation in the framework of an exhibition they had in 2017, called ‘Melancholy’. This exhibition implied being a display of works that somehow, directly or indirectly, had worked on this concept, let’s say, right? And well, they invited me to make a proposal and when I went to the museum, a museum that was good, the National Museum of Art, from its beginnings was not designed as a museum, like many CDMX museums, they were adapted. This was the Porfirio Díaz Palace of Communication and well, it has an event room there known as, well, now I wont remember the name, but it is the space in which Porfirio Díaz received the guests, in essence, it is a dance room. And I proposed that space to dance salsa, thinking about this idea of ​​melancholy, like dancing, especially salsa with its dramatic lyrics, right? There are actually very few salsa songs that are joyous as such, there is a very cathartic issue to them. It is danced to overcome or transcend love misery, or complex social situations. Ehhh, and it seemed the most pertinent to accompany the exhibition. Also that room, traditionally has been used for private parties, not even traditionally, recently it has been used for private parties. The daughter of former President Enrique Peña Nieto made a catwalk there, and the Governance generated there, his end of the year party. And well, it also seemed legitimate to me that you could use that space to dance salsa. The museum thought it was a good idea and the project consisted of using four dance sessions: two in the Reception Hall, it is the name of that space, and the last two in the Plaza de los Leones, which is where the esplanade is, main museum. So the first session began… Of course, being an enclosure, heritage, you have to be careful, right? The number of decibels so as not to affect the space, the shoe has to be appropriate of course. All this was carried out with appropriate rigor and the Museum authorities, working with professionalism, right?, between professionals. What happened was that within the Museum’s social networks, we made a call also for people to suggest salsa pieces to dance, there was a big call. People who had never been to MUNAL, it was the first time to be able to dance. And many other people too, fascinated by the initiative, wanted to show off their best steps. Within the networks, at the end of that first day, a very brief clip of 14 seconds of cases was uploaded, of the people dancing in the Hall. And ehhh, the sessions were to be every Saturday: four Saturdays of the MUNAL Hall, and one Friday night, an initiative arose in one of those Change.org portals, where a person alarmed at what had happened, stated that MUNAL had become a dance hall and what he argued was that the pieces, the enclosure; It was being damaged, the floor was scratched and well, a series of alarming things. Especially with a lot of pressure on the Director. Everything seemed to have that agenda, like going directly against the Museum authorities. And well, I found out in the morning that the project was canceled. It said, ”The National Museum of Art has canceled the event.” And that was my first meeting, my first news was to see that it was gone, the day of the event, the second day. And that seems to me, it seemed to me of course regrettable and very unprofessional, that they did not have the tact to speak with the person in charge, with me, and the collaborators and that it was a project that we had been working on for almost a year. This was, say, unfortunate because what it showed is that with just 200 signers, which obviously was riddled with lies, the Museum succumbed. And I decided to call a peaceful protest on the Tolsá Plaza, where the famous rocking horse is. If they don’t let us dance inside, we will dance outside. All the people who, of course, had already formed people to go to the event, people who went to the last session, and all were upset and frankly outraged. Well, people started dancing, there were around 300 people and, of course, many pedestrians, that with music and dancing, because they started to dance and it was, this was quite attractive and caught the attention of the media; in such a way that they interviewed me for some newspapers and I manifested this whole situation. Right after I read the publication of, “closed Salón MUNAL”; We wrote another Change.org petition, talking about the origins of the project, what had happened, the seriousness with which we had handled the security of the space, the people, the property and with arguments where it was noted that what bothered most the detractors. It was a symbolic aspect of space, which was being tarnished. These Change.org platforms allow people to comment, beyond signing, and the comments that people had were extremely classy, ​​saying things like, “How is it possible that a museum is allowed to enter a vulgar crowd? This is a space to protect great works of art! We don’t want people from the outskirts!” Among many others, many more offensive. “We don’t want thieving kids in our space!” And so all this, what he did was feed this process and turned Salón MUNAL into a situation that really made it possible to problematize the use of a museum, which, to a large extent, is paid for by our taxes and which is really ours, and which, again, it is part of the uncooperative racism that exists in our country, where a privileged group felt threatened because they saw those bodies; brown bodies, bodies wiggling, pieces are Spanish, what they dance in the markets, what they dance in the neighborhoods, sweating people, moving in a rhythmic way; and that was what generated this debate. Well, given the dance proposal, Plaza Tolsá had a great result where the Museum recognized that it had rushed and decided to continue the process, and now we had full visibility. It was already a topic of debate on social networks, of course, on the use of cultural spaces, heritage and to whom it belongs, as you mention, the museum and who can use it, who defines the cultural agenda of a space? And who has the right to modify it and before what? Parameters? In the end, around 7,000 people attended the Salón MUNAL, between the four Saturdays, the vast majority had never been to the museum. That it was also a force, because, I suppose, that the museums want, they always say that they want to expand their publics and audiences, and well, I think that was a great achievement for the Museum. And also as the class arguments of the detractors were so evident, many other causes joined the MUNAL Hall; groups of these dissident bodies went to dance, Queer questions to go to dance at the museum, it was also, the last Saturday, a group of the older members of the community, and well, they did not dance much, they were sitting there, but they were participants in the event and went. I believe that it made it possible to problematize a lot about the use of spaces, and I believe that an experience that, of course, was not planned to have so much relevance and so much discussion, to which I am fascinated and remain very grateful.

S: Yeah. Yes, what you say seems very important to me: thinking, reflecting on spaces. Well above all, what we have already been talking about. Based on all this that you already shared, what does it mean to make art in a country like this?

D: Well, I transfer that question to what it means to make art in this reality and that, I think that each project has to be linked to very specific strategies, and you have to be very aware of where you are and you have to constantly reflect on the implications of your work. I believe that there are many ways of making art, of course. Ways in which many artists get involved, and understand their way of socializing their work and, of course, living more or less worthy of it. Ehhh, but more than being an artist, I like to think more than as an artist, as an inhabitant of this city and all that it implies with my people, with my friends, my work groups, my affections. I think it is an answer that can be applied to everyone, the context in which you have to develop interaction or creative thinking, you have to be very informed, especially be very aware that the relevance and impact of your initiatives. That should not be overlooked, what you do in the best of cases, has a forcefulness. You, as an artist, have to define who you want to see it, who you want to be the direct participants in these processes. At least in my case, they are not works for Mexico, in general. They are diverse spaces of resonance. When working with the AMI, the work lies directly in the Assembly process to generate this assembly performativity of identity construction and this didactic material; which has, has had an implication in educational contexts; and it can have an impact on the institution, on the bureaucracy. There are several aspects of resonance that… You have to be very conscious and shrewd, let’s say, to have this resonance management that work can have. But it is increasingly important to think about the specific, about the contextual impact of what we do, assuming that this can grow, and unexpectedly it does.

S: Daniel, you told us that you are also a teacher, you teach. And although you commented that you have ‘scarce’ 11 years of experience, we are talking about a good number of years, right? Throughout that time, what advice could you share with the young person who is interested in art in general, but specifically, in the visual arts, as a piece of advice that you would have liked to know when you were young, and that you really discovered it over the years.

D: I think that a great strength that we have to take into consideration is ingenuity, again. I believe that for current generations of arts students, or future arts students, one lives in a world where there is an oversaturation of information, of references, of initiatives, of practices related to art. And that may be, I see in many students that it becomes overwhelming, sometimes unmotivated to say, “Well, everything is done.” And the advice that I give, well, this expression of ‘there is nothing new under the sun’, we actually work with the same things that we always do, right? The big issues. I believe that it is very important to value our naivety, to assume that we do not yet have certainties, and trial and error. You have to make a lot of mistakes, you have to do things and from doing things, you understand, find out where to go, with whom to collaborate. There are other careers that do depend much more on relationships and other kinds of inertia, and social machinery. But in art I think that it is very important to face one way, like embracing the unknown as a creative-artistic potential. I think why do you want to be sure how a project is going to work with people? Why do you do it? Why do a project that you already know how it will end? I, especially at this time, is to take risks, to know your sensitivity, to know your way of exploring, of perceiving and forging your art criteria, forging your way of relating. And who are your allies, with whom you can collaborate, that is also very important. Have, value your friends very much, more than the presentations of the sacred cows. They are going to be your allies and they are going to be the ones you are going to collaborate with, right? You are not alone, be generous also, with the other naiveties because we are in this together and they will be colleagues someday.

S: I love it. Very well, and well, throughout these years or rather, at this time or perhaps a few years ago. Is there a new art form, movement, an artistic concept that you identify that is developing, and that is interesting, and that may have a seed there, and may develop in the near future, or more in the long term?

D: Really the reflections that I have at the moment are; in what way can art participate in generating utopian-applicable approaches that can really affect spaces beyond the traditional circuits of art circulation? I think that there are, for many years, at least for 70 years, there are many artistic sensibilities, and let’s say creators, thinkers from other areas of knowledge, who problematize the structures in which we are immersed, who assume control or they try less, not to delegate our symbolic capital, our sensitivity, our methodologies, to inertias, right? I think it is important to think, “how can art enrich, modify and deepen our human relationships?” For this reason, for me, participating in pedagogical processes, again that, the Indigenous Migrant Assembly, the way in which tequio is carried out as an educational practice where experience is privileged, manages to have incidents. I think that we have to see each other, see them, see where we come from, know where our grandparents come from, know where our family comes from, and from that try not to emulate the, as the new trends or fashions of creation are dictated, but generate your own perspective and way of proceeding. I believe in an art that has the potential to modify our relationships and participate in the generation of knowledge, just as it can happen in school, I think.

S: I’m going to proceed to a section of about eight questions that are much shorter, more concrete. Cut the rest.

D: Very well Stephanie, yes.

S: Artistic influences.

D: I recognize, ehhh, my mentor is José Miguel González Casanova, my colleagues/artists David Camargo, Amauta García, the people with whom I collaborate in the Traffic Free Knowledge group. Daniel Morales, another very relevant artist/teacher. Of course, the defense strategies and experiences of many indigenous peoples who have been working on that. Of course, a lot of Ivan Illich‘s thinking. Working for 5 years in rural schools in the Ñañú population, which are the Otomíes. Meet teachers who are intimately committed and linked to their community who implement work strategies and ways of proceeding at the SEP. I think I highly value these artists and agents who intervene in their academic institutions or other type of institution, to modify them from within. That seems very important to me.

S: Right, yes. I just have to add that there is a lot of knowledge and many good practices that we have not taken into account, that come from our indigenous peoples and that we should turn to see, and know about them now that you mention it.

Favorite music album, song or songwriter.

D: Wow, thinking about my first fascination with an album, it was when I was very young, this film ‘The Yellow Submarine‘ by the Beatles came. That has been, I haven’t heard it recently at all, but that was a trigger for me, that music and those delusional landscapes were very important to me since I was little.

S: Favorite movie.

D: Wow, how intense! They are the most direct, simple questions… Ehh, well, I’m going to tell you: a movie that I saw, let’s see, well, how curious is that! Well, uh, I don’t remember the title of this movie, Curious! But it is, if I’m not mistaken, it’s called ‘Sweet Bean’. Probably a bakery, or a pastry? But it is a film by a director named Naomi Kawasei. And well, that in these days of pandemic It has been one of the most tender and endearing gestures I have had. And well, I will remember it from this period very much.

S: Favorite book or reading that you recommend.

D: A good text to recommend, of course, is “Treatise on Etiquette for the Younger Generations (aka The Revolution of Everyday Life)” by Raoul Vaneingem. This was a crucial book too, at the time I read it, about 10 years ago, and it offers very pertinent ideas, ideas, and reflections for these moments, and I highly recommend it.

S: Work created or directed, the verb you want, of art, by another colleague who has marked you.

D: That I am very clear about, ehhh, and I love it because it is a work of which I do not know the name of the author. Here if not for… I don’t know what it’s called. It can probably be found easily, but this is a Canadian artist who made a piece that involved swapping objects. He started with a clip, which he was exchanging for objects of greater value: a lighter, a subway ticket, maybe a phone book and so, right? And after a while, he ended up with a house. That is one of my favorite works because, precisely, what it shows are applicable utopian approaches that modify a lot of the parameters and structures in which we are immersed.

S: What could be the worst and best advice that someone has given you?

D: Well, the worst advice, well… I think there have been many, especially decrees. I remember, when I was very young, this age of being fascinated by dinosaurs, I was in that period and like many children, I wanted, very small, I wanted to be a paleontologist. And one person told me, “From here to when you are a paleontologist, all dinosaurs will have been discovered and that will be it.” Which was… I remember it with great regret!, because it really opened the perspective of time and made me see that, well, although it was a joke of course, but how can someone tell that to a child? I guess that’s the worst. And the best advice, I think, was on some occasion, they told me that making art, creating is like giving a gift, like giving something to someone. And they told me that at school at some point, I was about to leave. I think that it has been one of the best things that I have been told and I value that very much, because I believe that creation is, of course, intimately linked to your way of moving in the world. And so if, that is, to create is to give the best of you. Not in a moral sense, of course, but in a good sense, but it is giving something of yours, important. I think that the artists that I value and respect very much do, they make, they give gifts.

S: What stigma do we have to overcome as a society?

D: Well, I think the colonial wound, mainly, thinking of Mexico. I believe that we have to transcend that and confront it in a daring way, each one from his trenches as artists, managers… And above all, recognize that we have so much of this colonial gap in us, right? Because we have a lot, a lot. That is a gap, I think, a very important one, and… with that, well, with that mainly.

S: With that we have enough.

D: Yes.

S: If you could know the absolute truth to a question or knowledge, what would it be?

D: Well, I am intrigued to think, what do plants dream of?

S: If someday they told you that you can’t do anything related to art, never again, what would happen to you?

D: I would probably have more time and energy to dedicate myself to projects, ehhh, pedagogical. I think I would love that, but since I have so much linked art with education, I am going to remove that too. Well, I would like to spend more time in the kitchen, cooking. That I think is very important. The truth is that I have had time these days to make bread and after a rather remarkable learning curve, I have found, and, above all, seeing a lot of tutorials, with the sonic peculiarities of bread, that bread speaks to you. That the bread generates certain vibrations when it is crisp and delicious. And well, it’s a challenge to make good bread and I think it’s something I could spend a good time on.

S: Alright Daniel, what’s next for you? I know that we are in the middle of the Pandemic, and that it will surely extend for a couple of weeks, but what next for Daniel professionally?

D: Yes. Still to define the date, next year, in the first months of next year, I have an individual expo at the Tlatelolco Cultural Center, here at UNAM; which is a project that I have been developing with a group of triquis midwives, with which I have been collaborating for the last 5 years, where never, it is the first time that we do a collective project. It consists of rereading the first codex, the oldest botanical document in America, which is the The Badianus Manuscript. It is a rereading of this document, from the dreams of these women. And well, it will probably be presented in March of the following year, and as for expos, I think that’s it. I also have the support of FONCA, the Young Creators scholarship; And I am just working on a project that consists of a botanical study of a group of planets that were found in dreams, which is this study of ‘Flora Onírica‘. And well, that is what I am doing at home, and I do not know when it will be presented and in what formats, these are other things I think about here, other ways of socializing. And well, that’s for sure things, which are already imminent.

S: Very good Daniel. It has been a pleasure to chat with you, get to know you a little more! I know that there are many things that are left out because it is very broad, all the topics, but it has been very interesting to get to know you a little more in-depth and I don’t know, is there anything you want to add, share?

D: Well, thank you, thank you for this invitation. The truth is that I really enjoy sharing about everything, my process and highlighting certain things. I hope that for the listener or reader, they may seem relevant or perhaps confront them, and inspire them somewhat in their processes, I think that would be ideal for me. And well, thank you again and you’re done. Chingón!

REFERENCES:

1. National School of Plastic Arts : http://www.fad.unam.mx/
2. UNAM: https://www.unam.mx/
3. MUAC: https://muac.unam.mx/
4. VanAbbe Museum: https://vanabbemuseum.nl/en/#
5. Center for Contemporary Arts CCA: https://www.cca-glasgow.com/programme
6. National Fund for Culture and the Arts: https://fonca.cultura.gob.mx/
7. Superior National School of Fine Arts in Paris: https://es.parisinfo.com/museo-monumento-paris/71169/Ecole-nationale-superieure-des-Beaux-arts
8. Visible Award: https://www.visibleproject.org/blog/award/
9. Juchitecan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yucat%C3%A1n
10. Istmo of Tehuantepec: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isthmus_of_Tehuantepec
11. San Cristóbal de las Casas: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Crist%C3%B3bal_de_las_Casas
12. Chiapas: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiapas
13. Zapotecas: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapotec_peoples
14. Mixes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixe_people
15. Mixtecos: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixtec
16. Triquis: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triqui
17. Tequio: https://www.reddit.com/r/socialism/comments/7f3g0e/what_is_tequio_traditional_community_labor_in/
18. Terremoto del ‘85: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_Mexico_City_earthquake
19. Zoques: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoque_people 
20. Zapatista Army of National Liberation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapatista_Army_of_National_Liberation
21. Chilango: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilango
22. CCH Vallejo: http://www.cch-vallejo.unam.mx/
23. Xochimilco: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xochimilco
24. Fundación Cittadellarte Pistoletto: http://www.cittadellarte.it/en/
25. Fundación Zegna: https://www.zegna.es/es-es/revista/mundo-zegna/fundacion-zegna.html
26. Tequiografias: https://www.danielgodineznivon.com/Tequiografias
27. Seminario de Medios Múltiples: http://www.mediosmultiples.mx/
28. José Miguel González Casanova: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Miguel_Gonz%C3%A1lez_Casanova
29. Mexican Nationalism: https://creativecultureint.com/en-GB/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Mexico-WP-1.pdf
30. Woodcuts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodcut
31. Náhuatl: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nahuatl
32. Asamblea de Migrantes Indígenas: http://indigenasdf.org.mx/ami/
33. Universidad Pedagógica Nacional: https://www.upn.mx/
34. Oaxacans: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oaxaca
35. Educación Indígena: https://www.upn.mx/index.php/estudiar-en-la-upn/licenciaturas/18-estudiar-en-la-upn/92-educacion-indigena
36. Monograph: Term for themed workbooks or work sheets used in schools.
37. Papelería: Term for small locally owned stationery stores common all across Mexico. 
38. Texto: https://files.cargocollective.com/730229/Tequiografias_Visible-Award_Canclini_English.pdf
39. Néstor García Canclini: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C3%A9stor_Garc%C3%ADa_Canclini
40. Secretaría de Educación Pública: https://www.gob.mx/sep
41. Instituto Nacional Indigenista: https://www.gob.mx/inpi
42. Acme: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/acme
43. Tequiorolas: https://www.danielgodineznivon.com/Tequio-Rolas
44. Coro Informal: https://www.danielgodineznivon.com/Coro-Informal
45. Tráfico Libre de Conocimientos: http://www.tlc.org.mx/
46. North American Free Trade Agreement (Tratado de Libre Comercio in spanish): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Free_Trade_Agreement
47. Salón MUNAL: https://www.danielgodineznivon.com/Salon-MUNAL
48. Ariella Azoulay: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariella_Azoulay
49. Potential History, Unlearning Imperialism: https://books.google.com.mx/books?id=SHK4DwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&hl=es&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false 
50. Museo Nacional de Arte, MUNAL: http://www.munal.mx/en
51. Imperialism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperialism
52. Colonialism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonialism
53. Melancolía: http://www.munal.mx/en/exposicion/melancolia
54. Porfirio Díaz: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porfirio_D%C3%ADaz
55. Enrique Peña Nieto: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enrique_Pe%C3%B1a_Nieto
56. Change.org: https://www.change.org/
57. Plaza Tolsá: https://www.afar.com/places/national-art-museum-munal-centro
58. David Camargo: http://www.mediosmultiples.mx/en/portfolio-item/david-camargo-4/
59. Amauta García: https://amautagarcia.com/
60. Daniel Morales: http://lewinsonart.com/artistas/pintores/814-daniel-morales-ortiz
61. Ivan Illich: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Illich
62. Hñähñú, Otomíes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otomi
63. The Yellow Submarine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRnAcVLBIyY
64. Beatles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beatles
65. Sweet Bean: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweet_Bean
66. Naomi Kawasaki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naomi_Kawase
67. Treatise on Etiquette for the Younger Generations (aka The Revolution of Everyday Life) https://www.amazon.com/Treatise-Etiquette-Generations-Revolution-Everyday/dp/1620490188
68. Raoul Vaneingem:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raoul_Vaneigem
69. Kyle MacDonald: https://www.elmundo.es/navegante/2006/07/10/esociedad/1152518726.html
70.  Centro Cultural Tlatelolco: http://tlatelolco.unam.mx/
71. The Badianus Manuscript: https://www.wrf.org/ancient-medicine/badianus-manuscript-americas-earliest-medical-book.php
72. Flora onírica: https://www.danielgodineznivon.com/Ensayo-de-Flora-Onirica 
73. Chingón: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ching%C3%B3n

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